S4E09: Contra Hard Corps -or- One-Hit Thrills

Unknown Speaker (0:00): I don't know where my Genesis could be. I haven't seen my Super Nintendo since 2003. That's alright.

Jaymo (0:28): It's payback time, or as I like to call it, the old switcheroo where we're talking gaming retro with Mike and J Mo.

Unknown Speaker (0:35): I'm Mike. And I'm

Jaymo (0:36): J Mo. Join us on our epic quest to research and review all 300 plus games in the Nintendo classics catalog, including Nintendo Switch Online's Genesis app. Today, we are loading and locking nope. Said that wrong. Today, we are locking and loading Contra Hardcore on the Sega Genesis in an episode we are calling one hit thrills.

Jaymo (0:56): If you like what you hear, don't forget to like, subscribe, and, of course, play along. Now, Mike, this is the old switcheroo. Right? The old switcheroo? That it is.

Jaymo (1:06): I'm glad you got the name down. It only took a couple of years. I always liked that, you know, you came up with that name. The old kinda touches on the fact that we're not exactly spring chickens anymore. But, you know, as Aaliyah said, age ain't nothing but a number.

Jaymo (1:21): Except for our guest host today, I think it's more than a number. It has to do with the title of his show. Would you like to introduce him?

Mike (1:27): Yeah. We are bringing on Markivas from 40 gamers.

Markivus (1:32): Yes. Hello. How's everybody doing? I'm glad to be on the show. Like you said, age is nothing but a number.

Markivus (1:39): But, yeah, my my podcast is 40 gamers, me and my best friend, Sharon Harrington. Been best friends since the nineteen hundred and nineties back in high school. We're 40, and we're Gen Xers. And we like your show, we talk about retro games that we loved and grew up with as well as current and games of now.

Jaymo (1:58): Yeah. And, you know, I one thing I really loved, I was checking out a couple of your episodes, your switch to breakdown, your physical versus digital. And, like, I don't know if it's just, like, the vibe I put out or my proximity to Mike, but I get a lot of, like, naysayers in my feed. So it was so nice to just your positivity, I think. Your guys' love for games and just for your friendship, think, really bleeds into every conversation you guys seem to be having.

Jaymo (2:23): Like, it's it's it's such a pleasant and joyous listen. I really like it. You're also a musician. So I was wondering if you could touch on that a little bit and talk about maybe any gaming inspiration to your music?

Markivus (2:35): Yeah. So, I have, two personas. My hip hop persona is, Furious, f u r y u s. And as of this well, last year into this year, I use my name, Markiva's Nias, now, and I just do, like, instrumentals, lo fi, sci fi. Actually, there's an instrumental you might like.

Markivus (2:53): It's called Strangest Things Cinematic inspired by video games and, Strange Things. What I'm looking to do, with my hip hop persona, I was able to, get sync licenses, dance moms, breaking breaking bad, say yes to that dress, blacking crew, NFC fight nights. And one of my goals is to get more sync licenses and hopefully a a background in a video game type of thing. So yep. So both hip hop and then instrumentalist, if you will.

Jaymo (3:25): I love that. That's awesome. So is there a retro gaming soundtrack that's, like, your go to? Like, I know you you you talk on your show about being a Genesis kid, so I assume Streets of Rage is up there.

Markivus (3:35): Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. When I heard Streets of Rage, Streets of Rage two, and then we recently talked about Technosoft's Thunder Force and Thunder Force four, Lightning Force. Love the music to that.

Jaymo (3:49): So are you more of like so there's a big debate about SNES versus Genesis. Like, who has the better? Like, mean, the the the soundboard for SNES was just so much more expansive, but I feel like there's a crunchiness to a Genesis soundtrack that just it hits.

Markivus (4:03): Yeah. And then I know, wasn't it the version one had a better sound than version two of the Genesis? So I had the version one, of course. And, yeah, I think with with me and actually, and my coach were talking about it this morning, that Sega or Super Nintendo had more of, like, it sounded more orchestral, and it had, like, sample based to whereas the Genesis to me seemed like a lot more synth heavy, and I'm I love synths. So, yeah, I'm a go with Team Sega.

Jaymo (4:30): Who doesn't love synth? Mike, do you have a favorite retro soundtrack?

Mike (4:34): I'm not sure I have one offhand. I mean Yeah. I have Sonic Spinball on vinyl, but that that was a nice crossing of options showing up there.

Jaymo (4:46): Yeah. As a talented magician, I think Mark will appreciate that the theme song to Sonic Spinball, when researching for that episode, we learned that the theme song was written in, like, under two hours because they they've they found out, like, the day before they were going to print the cartridge. Like, oh, we don't have the right to the Sonic theme song that's owned by somebody else. Hey. You you go you have two hours to make a theme song.

Unknown Speaker (5:08): That is that is crazy.

Unknown Speaker (5:10): I don't know how long it takes you, but it took sonic spin ball two hours. So

Markivus (5:13): That no. That's that's impressive. That's pretty impressive.

Unknown Speaker (5:16): Well, guys, without further ado, the research center isn't gonna save itself. Are you guys ready to go after Deadeye Joe?

Mike (5:23): Yes. I'm looking forward to find out where he comes from and where he goes.

Jaymo (5:28): Deadeye, not Cotton Eye. Alright. So let's go ahead and get started with Contra Hardcore released on the Sega Genesis in, as they say on 40 gamers, 1994. As described on Nintendo Switch online, wage war against your enemies in this nonstop action shooter. Choose between multiple characters, weapons, and even paths as you blast your way through crazy boss fights alone or with a friend.

Jaymo (6:03): So people's first impression was often the box art. So I was wondering if Mark could describe what the kind of Genesis box art looks like and if you have any feelings about it.

Markivus (6:12): Well, yeah, the box art is one of the Contra characters, and it seems like a a futuristic battle with some of the aliens. I'm gonna say the Contra box art or the Contra art itself for the original Sega Genesis or for the Nintendo, Contra was amazing. And then there was always this controversy of what was that Arnold and Rocky or Sylvester Stallone? This kinda is, like, more futuristic, and it still has that iconic Contra feel.

Jaymo (6:42): A 100%. Mike, I'm gonna guess you like this one.

Mike (6:46): Honestly, this one I'm not too taken by. Some of that may be the off puttingness that the giant, like, robot alien head in the distance has teeth. And I don't know. That just feels weird to me.

Unknown Speaker (6:58): It's very Terminator. Right? Like Yeah. T 100 or whatever or was but t 1,000 was the one that Yeah. Morphed into Robert, whatever that guy's name was.

Jaymo (7:09): I don't know. I feel like it does kind of convey what I think is the core of this game, which is shooting really big guns against really crazy large boss fights. And so so, Mike, how do you feel about the Japanese box art? Would you describe it

Mike (7:24): for our listeners? So this one has much more of I guess I'd say sort of like an anime style, and this also has sort of a Drew Struznesque kind of structure to how it's doing this of putting all the characters in there where you've got full body characters, then up up and above, we've got just a head of presumably a villain. Because I feel like everyone that isn't an actual playable character becomes a villain at some point.

Jaymo (7:52): Talk about the doctor there. That's who that is. Full full spoilers for Contra Hardcore. Yeah. Me, I don't know if it's just the it's very blue and kind of purple, but, like, you almost don't even see Brad Fang.

Jaymo (8:05): Like, he almost disappears completely into doctor Bahamut and Dead Eye Joe. And then, like, you kinda miss the master loader boss kinda looking at you from the front. I don't know, though. Personally, I think the vinyl cover takes the cake. Right, Mark?

Markivus (8:20): Yeah. It still has to me, still has the essence of Contra, the original Contra. And I and talking about the teeth, there was it the main boss in Contra that had the teeth? The aliens with the the mouth would open up. It just kinda is it to me, it's kinda like a recall to old Contra meets the future.

Jaymo (8:39): Yeah. I could see that. Like, yeah, like the old Contra gameplay from NES, but now we're on the stronger Genesis hardware. So Yeah. Yeah.

Jaymo (8:46): Yeah. Yeah. That's a good call. So speaking of well, I mean, I don't know. I I I just feel like sometimes the contra images can become a muddled mess.

Jaymo (8:54): So my transition was gonna be speaking of a muddled mess, the North American ad campaign for hardcore featured a child getting yanked by the cord of his Genesis controller into a literal meat grinder, complete with cartoonish yelps of pain and misery set to a montage of the game's many boss fights, which I don't know. Do you guys remember seeing this on the boob tube?

Markivus (9:19): I I I actually remember seeing the commercial. Now that you I haven't seen that commercial in a long time, but I remember seeing this commercial. Hardcore came out. I do remember that.

Unknown Speaker (9:29): Did it horrify you too? I think it's kinda disturbing.

Markivus (9:33): Yeah. It was it was horrifying. But in retrospect, after digging into hardcore afterwards, I get it because it is it is a meat grinder of a game. So but, yeah, first seeing it, I'm like but then you gotta, I think, remember, like, during that time period, Sega Genesis thing was the the more edgy commercials and stuff compared to Nintendo.

Jaymo (9:55): Yeah. The bad boys of the playground. Yeah. Yeah. So the Contra series of games has been met with a number of controversies over the year, primarily due to its naming.

Jaymo (10:06): The term Contra entered the lexicon during the Iran Contra affair of the nineteen eighties in which senior officials of the Reagan administration were found to have sold weapons to Iran in exchange for the freedom of seven hostages, the proceeds of which were then secretly and illegally funding the uprising of the Nicaraguan Contra revolutionarios or Contras for short. This led to Contra two being named as Super C on the NES. So, Mark, you're primarily Genesis kid. Did you have the Contra NES games?

Markivus (10:35): Yep. So I had I had Contra, and I had Super C as well on the Nintendo.

Jaymo (10:41): And it was it was just Contra. They just took Contra out and called it c. Yeah. And really interesting in parts of Europe, they completely reskinned the game to the Probotecher series. Same gameplay, exact same levels, but now everyone's a robot, which, Mike, when I look at Brownie, our little mech from this game, like, it almost seems like he's a cameo in another series at that point because he stayed the same.

Jaymo (11:06): I I do I I have a question for you. Can we can we put on a mature hat for a second? I because I do feel like it's a strange time to be covering a game like this to a little bit because we scheduled this far in advance. Right? Yeah.

Jaymo (11:22): And then since we scheduled this episode, like, you know, there's been this big outbreak of of of wartime violence and, like, the government's used, like, video games as, like, a way to celebrate the lethality of its strikes. And, like, I've never when we were growing up in the nineties, right, there's always this conversation of, like, video games are gonna make you violent. Right? And after the first school shootings in this country started happening, it's like, they were gamers, that's video games. I've never I've never been in the bag for that.

Jaymo (11:49): I just don't think there's the research to back that up. But I do wonder at times like this, does violent gaming desensitize us to real world violence? What do you think, Mark?

Markivus (12:00): So Navy vet here, and then I served in operation Enduring Freedom on a ship that was ported in San Diego. We we were talking about this earlier. But, I do know that recruiting stations do use I I have heard, I haven't seen that they do use video games. And I I do think, especially coming from being a veteran to being a civilian, one of the conversations that me and some of the federal veterans had that some people are so far removed from the realities of war. And I think to a certain extent, it can kinda desensitize you.

Markivus (12:36): Yeah. But a lot of people in general, if you haven't experienced war, you really don't understand the cost, the cost of life, just the the stress of it all. So with me being, so this, nine eleven happened in December 2001, we shipped out. So twenty years after the fact, this ironically has happened in the same area. So it does, like, bring back moments like and it's yeah.

Markivus (13:04): It's it's sad. But I don't think overall I mean, they said the same thing about music. Right?

Unknown Speaker (13:10): Yeah.

Markivus (13:10): It doesn't desensitize you from it, but I think people, if you're far removed from it, you don't know how the cost of it all.

Mike (13:18): It also seems like video games have remained this sort of scapegoat while at the same time, there's sort of the same people that bring up that criticism don't bring up the extent that especially film is almost directly being used as with terms of propaganda with the military for them to be able to film a lot of stuff. And so you get things where it's like, well, you have to present the military in a certain favorable light in terms of what that experience is. You can't capture it realistically or explore gray areas because it's like, well, yeah, we're going to let you get access to an aircraft carrier or to jets, but then we get to shape the story you're telling. It seems to me like that would do a lot more of the sort of desensitization than Interesting. Video games, especially when it's video games that I don't think anyone would think that's what it's like because especially for this era where they don't they don't look like real things.

Mike (14:21): Yeah. Like, one's gonna look at that and be like, oh, that could have been a shot from a war, especially you know, now games are getting to that point, but they weren't they weren't at that point. Whereas, I think a lot of people looked at movies and went, well, that's what it's got to be like, and it's probably why some of the movies that got noted for being a bit more or I don't wanna say authentic because that's or that were noted for seeming to not gloss over things were viewed as very jarring because they didn't match the view the images people were seeing. And I think, like, Saving Private Ryan had was notable for that, where people are like, that is not the view of war that most movies showed.

Jaymo (15:01): Yeah. I I was fortunate enough to meet another veteran who actually adopted my dog because I couldn't find a home for her. So out in Arizona, we drove her out there. And, you know, he was talking about how much he loves to play Call of Duty. And, like, I I'm just impressed at anyone who has the bravery to to fight for the country, but then also to incorporate that kind of into their interests in a way that can be like he said it was almost relaxing that it was it was almost like almost a a comfort to him to play.

Jaymo (15:31): So do these do games like this hit different, Mark, after having served, or is, like, Contra so science fiction y and from two d? I'm guessing you weren't in the two d perspective when you were overseas. So it's probably does it does it hit at all differently?

Markivus (15:46): No. No. Because then this is from, this is from my childhood.

Jaymo (15:50): Yeah.

Markivus (15:50): And it's not it's not realistic. I mean, like you said, it's two d. It's scientific. And I guess that's why, now that you brought that up, I don't like war games, like, the newer war games and stuff, I don't play. I don't engage.

Markivus (16:02): And then, like so I was on the ship. To this day, I've never been on a cruise ship. None of that.

Unknown Speaker (16:08): Yeah. No. You're like, that was enough. We're good.

Markivus (16:12): And then there's certain things, like, when a lot of veterans, like, when I was on the ship, I was actually talking about this to a couple of veterans friends. We almost got, we almost got jacked up in Singapore. Like, our boilers broke, and we were in port, and the Al Qaeda were looking to, yeah, do harm to naval ships that were ported there. Never really talked about it, but I can honestly say I've never had a video game where it triggered my PTSD. I do remember when save your private Ryan came out, a lot of World War two soldiers, it did trigger their PTSD.

Markivus (16:46): And there have been some movies like Black Hawk Down, but never never from a video game. Never from a video game.

Mike (16:52): Yeah. Yeah. I think the other thing that provides you just in the the more broader gun violence, not as thing. Years ago, Penn and Teller had a show where they kind of tried to debunk where their thesis was debunking various things. And one of the things they did to kind of push back on the idea of video games as this cause of violence in America, one was to point out that there is this very specious connection between, like, gun violence and what was going on with video games in terms of how many people played video games versus not.

Mike (17:27): And part of this is, like, why Penn and Teller made was it Desert Desert Bus? Bus for Hope. Yeah. Desert or just Desert Bus to make a point like, Fine. Here's a here's a realistic game.

Mike (17:38): No one wants to play this. You you anyone who said games shouldn't have all this other stuff is like, well, yeah, you won't play this either. But they also compare how easily you can link kids getting hurt or killed to video games and what that is inspiring to the officially sanctioned things going on in schools like football, which actually does have a lot of injuries, a lot of you know, some deaths. You also get into things like traumatic brain injuries that are happening. You can much easier link something like football to bursts of violence later than video games.

Mike (18:22): But that that's normalized. But the other thing that they did, and they did this with permission with the kid's parents, was they took a kid who really liked video games out to shoot a gun. And it sticks with me because that it you know, for as much as he really enjoyed the video games, you you know, there's a lot of shooting in what he was playing. He was not prepared at all for what it felt like to fire a real gun.

Unknown Speaker (18:44): Wow.

Markivus (18:44): Yeah. And then I think that was the case, like, with violence and Looney Tunes, those cartoons were ultraviolent. That should have made all of us a point. Looney Tunes cartoons.

Jaymo (18:57): Well, you guys ever played with mallets and dynamite? Like, come on. Like, that's that's childhood.

Unknown Speaker (19:02): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (19:02): Well, I mean, you guys are both so mature and smart, and and thank you for your service, Mark. I don't know. I I don't know if that's too cliche to say, but, like, I No.

Unknown Speaker (19:10): No. I I appreciate it.

Jaymo (19:11): Genuinely appreciate it, though. And our audience doesn't know that I've had this ridiculous picture of a Castlevania cameo in this game through this whole really serious conversation. But Yeah. This this has a really famous Easter egg, hardcore. This is my last piece of trivia for it before we get into the proper discussion.

Jaymo (19:32): There's a secret boss named Simondo Belmont. He attacks with the whip and drops food by whipping candelabras that appear and is even featured as an unlockable DLC character in what game, Mike?

Unknown Speaker (19:46): I did not I did not know wait a minute.

Unknown Speaker (19:52): Vampire survivors. Mike, I think you own this DLC.

Unknown Speaker (19:55): I I I have that character unlocked. I just don't think I ever I I there's a ton of of Castlevania characters that show up out of that. I didn't really keep track of what they are. I just unlocked all of them.

Jaymo (20:06): So this is, to be clear, from the Operation Guns themed expansion of Vampire Survivors, which is all Contra. And and so, Mark, we were talking before recording that this game is difficult. Did you ever get into the secret boss room?

Markivus (20:21): No. Never got into the secret boss room.

Mike (20:23): Okay. I I was having troubles with this. Thought I had reached as far as I was going to get. Checked out a speedrun. The game's done quick speedrun as a bonus due to the amount of money they raised for charity during that stream.

Mike (20:38): The bonus was to go back and take this alternate route to credits. The secret boss room? The secret boss rooms. And because that was just before the point where I couldn't get further in the game, I remember looking at me like, I bet I can get to that. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (20:56): I will give this a shot.

Jaymo (20:58): Well, so then let's get into the next part of the conversation. Right? So before you before we do the joy pros and joy cons of Contra Hardcore, wanna go over our history with the game and how far we've gotten. So, Mark, you said this was a childhood game. Was this like a Christmas present, or is this something you saved up for?

Markivus (21:13): Oh, for Contra Hardcore? Yeah. So I had actually, this is this was I didn't really get into this game in later. I had the original Contra. I had Contra Super C for Nintendo.

Markivus (21:26): I then went team Sega. One of my friends had the Contra for the Super Nintendo. Didn't get into this game actually much, much later. The Sega Genesis Mini was when I got this game.

Unknown Speaker (21:39): Nice.

Markivus (21:40): Yeah. So it came on the Sega Genesis Mini.

Unknown Speaker (21:44): And you said you got to around level two or three?

Markivus (21:46): Yeah. Two or three. Yeah. The game is Sega had no well, Capcom or Konami had no right making this game that this hard. I actually found a cheat code where you can get 70 men, but it has to be on the Japanese version.

Markivus (22:03): And I know there's a way you can switch it on the Japanese version on the Sega Genesis mini. I need to figure that out.

Mike (22:10): So does this mean you also came across what else the Japanese version did that the American version didn't? I was really frustrated to learn this that the Japanese version, number one, you have a life bar. So you you have three hits for each life. And number two, the Japanese version has infinite continues.

Unknown Speaker (22:30): Yeah. Wow.

Mike (22:32): And I've seen it said that that was basically removed for The US due to the rental market in The US, and they didn't want people to be able to beat it that easily.

Unknown Speaker (22:42): Yeah.

Mike (22:43): And I so wish I had the like, that what we had access to included that Japanese version because I really want those additional features.

Jaymo (22:53): Yeah. So, Mike, I'll bet a dollar that you did I did, and you went to the Nintendo Switch online menu to see if you could switch to the Japanese version. I didn't. Okay. You can't.

Mike (23:04): Because I thought I have already have those set to show me all the version things. Okay. I had not attempted to do that in this case because I think I just I hadn't seen it.

Jaymo (23:13): Well, I always wanted to play this game, like, really badly. I would see it in, like, magazines and, you know, we didn't have the most money as a kid. So despite what Mike would tell you, like, we had a lot of consoles, but we weren't, like, regularly buying new things. So if you didn't find it used at the Game Dude warehouse, you know, you probably probably weren't gonna get it. So this was actually my first Contra game I've ever played.

Jaymo (23:37): And when I learned that the game not only had branching pathways, but five different endings based on the path you pick, not only Nintendo did I beat this game.

Unknown Speaker (23:51): Nintendo. I mean, computer.

Unknown Speaker (23:54): But I, Nintendo, did beat it five times, Mark. Oh, yeah.

Markivus (23:58): Really? Oh my goodness.

Unknown Speaker (24:00): Now full disclosure, I use the rewind feature a lot. Okay. You know

Markivus (24:06): what you you know what's funny? I have a Switch two. Yeah. And I didn't think to because once you said the Japanese, I was like, you know what? Maybe I can go.

Markivus (24:13): And I do have the, the Sega Genesis console online with the Switch Yeah. And the rewind feature. Why not think of that? Because the game is so fast paced.

Unknown Speaker (24:22): It's so funny. It you're like the fourth or fifth guest we've had who come and talk, and they go, like, you can do what? Like, not not that you forgot about it, but, like, it skips people's minds because it's just I mean, especially if you play this as a kid, you're so far you know, you know, that would never have been an option.

Unknown Speaker (24:37): Yeah.

Jaymo (24:37): So you just learned the hard way through blood, sweat, and tears. So there's some really wild endings to this game. You can skip the last boss fight entirely and just agree to side with the villain. And the game just ends. And you just Wow.

Jaymo (24:54): Yeah. It's pretty dark. The weirdest one is if you beat the secret boss fight, you accidentally get sucked into a time portal, and then you travel back in time, and then you take a ape for a bride. Or a I guess that'd be a chimp. Right?

Unknown Speaker (25:09): Technically, that's a chimp.

Unknown Speaker (25:11): Yeah.

Jaymo (25:11): But it cracks me up though, because, like, it shows you on a throne with your chimp bride swooning over you, and everyone gets the same chimp bride, all four characters, which is, like, strangely ahead of its time for Sheena, I think. But I love I love the but I love the subtitle says, several years passed before. It's like, it's almost implying, like, look, I waited for several years before I took him.

Mike (25:37): Alternatively, it was a long courtship.

Unknown Speaker (25:39): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (25:41): Yeah. There was some romance. It was a slow burn. I like that, Mike. You know what?

Jaymo (25:45): You're so much classier than I am. So, Mark, will you lead us on a discussion of the joy pros of hardcore? Why did you like this game even though it was difficult?

Markivus (25:55): So being around the time being team Sega, Super Nintendo had mode seven. Around this time, like, that's when they had Street Fighter two. So it was, like, during the the time of the console wars, and I like the fact that this game pushed Sega Genesis towards its limits. Like, this along with Lightning Force, the graphics, the fast paced action, I was all in. Like, I'm like, wow.

Markivus (26:23): Okay. Sega's finally this is better than the Super Nintendo's version of Contra. And then we actually had a a Contra port for the Sega. But the one thing I didn't like and I still don't like is the game is very, very, very hard. And like you said, you get one hit for the American version and you're done.

Markivus (26:43): So it's really all about timing. And it's even if you, like, do a misstep, they come at you so fast. So love the the action, the the graphics. Just hate that it's it's Mega Man on crack as far as the difficulty.

Mike (26:57): And that when you get killed, you lose the weapon you have, and that is so hard to recover from.

Unknown Speaker (27:04): Mhmm.

Jaymo (27:05): You know, okay. I'm gonna respectfully disagree because I did think that was interesting because in most two d shooters of the era, I feel like you wouldn't hold on to all these different weapons. You would get a flamethrower and that would replace your homing rockets. And you could only hold one at a time. So, like, there were moments where I was like, okay.

Jaymo (27:26): This part of the level, I know is kind of platform heavy. So I'm gonna switch to my least favorite weapon so that just in case I slip, I'm not dropping my favorite weapon that I know I'm gonna need for the boss. Yeah. So I I agree, Mike. It's frustrating.

Jaymo (27:41): But when I compare it to other shooters at the time, I think that the kind kinda inventory system was it it felt kinda innovative, honestly.

Mike (27:48): I I think if it had the health bar where you kind of could work where it wasn't just a single hit would kill you, and then you're working around it a little bit more, like, in that original version of it, I don't think would be nearly as frustrating. Yeah. Because part of what also then happens is you end up we're like, okay. When I continue, I continue at this point, and I do not have the weapons I need to get through this.

Jaymo (28:14): Did you guys have a favorite weapon? Like, well, who was your go to character, and what what what kind of weapon would you use? Because I think, especially, Mark, correct me if I'm wrong, at the time, this was the first Contra game where you had this cast of characters, and not only are their weapons different, but, like, they're different sizes, and they're kinda different even gameplay styles. Like, the the developers have been known to be like, okay. When you're playing as Brownie, the little robot who's so he's warm and friendly like a hot plate of brownies, so they called him Brownie.

Jaymo (28:42): And I guess his weapons are supposed to be more humorous. Like, has like a big yo yo and his his attacks almost look like he's playing with like bouncy balls or something. So he's supposed to be like the lighthearted kind of joke character. Did you have any go tos?

Markivus (28:55): Mine was the OG Joe and then the fire spread and then laser.

Unknown Speaker (28:59): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (28:59): They're my two go tos.

Mike (29:01): I mean, I I more I centered in on a character because I went through and basically tried each character, and the first time through died incredibly fast with everybody Yeah. Until I reached Brownie who was shorter. And so most of the enemy gunfire goes over goes over your head. Yeah. And I discovered that I could just kind of run while firing up on an angle, and I would kill anybody before they before running into them.

Mike (29:31): And all the shots none of their shots would hit me. And so I'm just like, well, I'm just gonna odd job the heck out of this game. And so I stuck with him, and I think probably my favorite of his is actually, like, the upgrade to your standard weapon, which is just this constant fire of, like, arrows or something because it was really easy to sweep the screen and just pick off everything.

Jaymo (29:55): I thought you don't wanna play PowerWatch simulator. It sounds like you turn this into PowerWatch simulator with the lasers just hosing down the screen. For me, I always gravitated towards whatever character's homing weapon was. Because as you guys said, so difficult. And so so much of me had to focus on my placement and my jumps and my slides that, like, okay.

Jaymo (30:17): Like, I'm just gonna let Jesus take the wheel as far as, like, where these shots are going. I'm gonna focus on getting out of the way. So I was a I was a big homing weapon guy. So the game, at the end of level one, you can either choose to pursue the boss character, his name's Dead Eye Joe, or you can respond to a distress signal at the research center, and it takes you on totally different path. The levels are completely different, and it's affecting your ending.

Jaymo (30:46): Mike, you tended to go save the research center usually, right, because you thought the Deadeye Joe path was too difficult?

Mike (30:52): Yes. There's a spider in there that I was not fond of. And so I went the other option in part because I reached a point where I really had just gotten down the entire other route in terms of everything to do. Both routes are really interesting. This kinda touches on the thing that just impressed me with this is just how this game looks and the kind of motion and stuff this has was not something I was expecting.

Mike (31:20): Yeah. And so for that where it's you're basically on a plane for that the entire first half of that Yeah. And it is like the plane is turning. Like, it'll go from it's flying, you're seeing it from the side to it will turn around or it'll be turned to face the camera. And it does handle a lot of that motion really well.

Mike (31:44): Like, I was not expecting it to do that.

Jaymo (31:46): Yeah. Yeah. It it lent a level of, like, three dness to the feel of it.

Mike (31:52): Yeah. And and so I kind of just went through that and got to a point where I like, okay. I have the hang of each of the, like, four sorts of stages of enemies through that. And I think there's one that was still a total pain, but the first three, got to point like, okay. I've got everything.

Mike (32:09): I know everything I need to do to get through each of these without taking any hits and then getting back to the lab and discovering that I don't have to kill the enemies. I just have to run past where they all are to the boss. Yeah. So it's pretty much just it was very much just I'm just gonna run to the right while firing until I'm out of this, and that was a boss that was difficult until I finally had it click on what I could do to I couldn't get it in the first cycle, but it was always a two cycle thing. And I just it was the I found the right spot to stand and the right weapon to use to get through

Jaymo (32:49): it real quick. And and we gotta talk about the bosses. These bosses like, the game starts I think level one has three bosses. Yeah. Including, like, the guy who's my background for the Zoom right now, the giant cyclops.

Jaymo (33:00): And, like, I that that was the shot in magazines. Maybe you go like, I gotta play this game. Look how big those bosses are. Like so, Mark, did any of the boss stick in your mind?

Markivus (33:12): So that guy back there, he kinda had, like, the x men, like, look. And I think we we we get on this is you have to find the correct timing and then also the correct spaces. Once I found that sweet spot where the fireballs come out, it's like, alright, here's the sweet spot. And, like you guys said, the option that you have to either go after Dead Eye Joe or, check on the facility, by level one, I'm like, you know what? I'm I'm already three bosses in.

Markivus (33:44): I'm not gonna engage and go to the ground. That seems more, more dangerous. But, no, the bosses were very and compared to, like, Contra and Super C, the bosses were really heavy to whereas, you know, in Contra, they kinda were like, okay, the mouth moves and here's three shots they come at you. No. These bosses move, they move fast, and it's all about timing.

Markivus (34:07): And like you said, having the correct rhythm and having the correct weapon and spot, sweet spot. And unfortunately, it takes lives to get to that point. Right?

Jaymo (34:16): Yeah. It takes or you just rewind like a bastard like I do. But, like

Mike (34:21): I'm doing it. It also really hurt. Since I I streamed playing this, I had someone stumble in because I was playing this game. And we started off with, how have you never play how is this your first time playing this game? And it's like Okay.

Mike (34:35): I I don't have answers for that. Weirdly, it was recommended that apparently you can hook up a keyboard to the Switch, which I didn't know was a thing you can do. Yeah. That is apparently a better way for playing this. I didn't experiment with this.

Mike (34:49): It was just like, that is a whole realm I hadn't considered. But the other big part was getting told, utilize sliding, which I had not realized how important it was going to be. And when someone's like, yeah, no. Do this. You get some iframes that you can use.

Mike (35:05): I was like, oh, I didn't realize it would do that. That really changed strategy on some parts of this.

Jaymo (35:11): I didn't realize that the slide technique because this is the first Contra game to have the slide technique. I didn't realize it gave you invincibility frames. Are you this is you know what? Dark Souls, they owe something to Contra Hardcore, I guess.

Unknown Speaker (35:22): Oh, yeah.

Mike (35:23): Yeah. No. Like, this is why for that alternate ending early where you just have three bosses to get

Unknown Speaker (35:29): through You thought maybe you could do it?

Mike (35:31): For the first one, when I was doing it on my on my own, where it's the Simando Belmont, it was basically just fire a lot. And as soon as it reached the point where he comes at at me across screen, it was just straight slide right past him, turn around, and continue firing. And it was actually a fairly easy fight for me. Yeah. And it was entirely because, like, oh, I can slide through of this.

Mike (35:56): And some sometimes I couldn't get the timing right, but that opened up a lot. And I'm like, oh, this needs to be a part of my strategy, and it made a lot of this get easier in spots.

Jaymo (36:08): I'm not proud to say I just got the joke. What does mondo mean? Like, mondo gecko from, like, Ninja Turtles. Mondo was, like, an adjective that meant, like, cool. Am I remembering that right?

Jaymo (36:18): I think

Unknown Speaker (36:19): it means world in Italian or something. Oh.

Unknown Speaker (36:22): Yeah. Something like huge or, yeah, world.

Jaymo (36:24): Leave a comment. If anyone knows what Mondo means, they say Mondo, Belmont. But, anyway, yeah. So just some other standout ones I just wanna touch on real quick is, like, if you go after Deadeye Joe and you shoot down the they have the aerial battle. You land on a freeway, and you and Deadeye Joe's giant battle mech are both running towards the player.

Jaymo (36:44): And it's very much like that memorable, like, kinda lying like, lot of games had this moment. The Lion King game also had that moment where you're running towards the player. Yeah. But like Mike said, though, it's still, like, it works really well. It handles the motion well.

Jaymo (36:56): And I'm so glad you brought up mode seven graphics because as a Sega kid, like, it hurt not getting those three d games. But you'd look at something like this and you feel you puff out your chest a little bit more. You know? It's like and and the Genesis, you know, it ran so much faster than Super Nintendo games.

Mike (37:10): And, also, with, like, with that level, it's meant to bring us up with the one before. The extent that this used the background on games was not something I was prepared for. And so, like, that first large boss that you see on the skyline in the background Yeah. Before rising up right behind you or that running bit where the boss will drop off into the background and you're sort of safe for a while or the junkyard, which is stage three. And it felt ridiculous to just have motorcycles dropping out of nowhere until I realized, no.

Mike (37:44): They're coming down the mountain in the background Yeah. First, so you know where they're coming from.

Unknown Speaker (37:49): So yep.

Mike (37:50): Yeah. So it was this thing of like, oh, okay. I can learn the pattern. You know? Eventually, I got it down, but it's like, okay.

Mike (37:55): I don't have to be reacting immediately. I can be watching that and preparing. And it was it was so much more stuff in the background that was really useful. It was like, I I was not expecting this game to look this good and have this sense of depth and have these great, really nice backgrounds.

Jaymo (38:15): Yeah. 100%. And and personally, I love all the moments that are, like, so cinematic. So one of the pathways you get through, like, this exploding warehouse and, like, the left side of the screen is slowly getting more and more enveloped in fire. And so you have less and less, you know, time to maneuver away from it.

Jaymo (38:32): There were these really cool alien designs, which I know was, like, a common enemy in the Contra series. I believe the one before this was Alien Wars, and I think that was the Super Nintendo maybe. Right, Mike? Something like that?

Mike (38:44): Plot wise, I think this refers to Alien Wars.

Jaymo (38:47): Right. Which is a game that came in the series before.

Unknown Speaker (38:49): Yeah. Yeah. Because it's where it got one of the MacGuffins out of this. One of the MacGuffins? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (38:55): I think, like, the alien cell that is like, oh, we got to do stuff for this.

Jaymo (38:58): Yes. That's what that's what all the military and the scientists, everyone's obsessed with this alien cell. Yeah. The design of the aliens, according to a 1994 interview with Beat Magazine, the devs took a field trip to the Parasitological Museum in Maguro, Japan because according to the dev, if you don't experience the weird and grotesque, how can you come up with weird and grotesque ideas? So there you go, Markiva.

Unknown Speaker (39:20): It's little inspiration for your

Unknown Speaker (39:21): next album.

Jaymo (39:24): And but I was happy to go back for repeated playthroughs because every every single one kind of felt like, you know, different. And I loved the kinetic energy of some of these boss fights. Like, there's a later level where you're on a train, and the boss is this giant robot running alongside the train. And when it gets in the front of the train, it slams its hands on it, and now it's skidding to a stop. Everything has, like, this it's things collide and sparks fly.

Jaymo (39:53): Like, it felt like a universal stunt show at moments. And I just I really, really love that. Gunstar Heroes, I kinda feel like this is probably in the conversation with Gunstar Heroes because it kinda borrows the same formula of, like, really crazy boss fights with little breaks of action in between each boss fight, and it's just crazy weapons. I assume that's another favorite, Mark.

Markivus (40:15): Yep. I was gonna say, because I was kinda thinking, wasn't, the team behind Gunstar Heroes? Were they used to be with Konami. Right? And they broke off, if I'm Yes.

Unknown Speaker (40:27): Yes.

Markivus (40:27): So they share this because it does when you play the game, you see the Gunstar Hero DNA with the the the speed and with everything action packed. So okay. That that was the question I had in my mind. You just you just answered that.

Mike (40:42): Also, with the variation in paths too.

Unknown Speaker (40:44): Oh oh, Greg. Well, yeah. Because Gunstar, you get to pick which order you go in.

Unknown Speaker (40:48): Yeah. Yeah.

Jaymo (40:49): Yeah. It's actually funny. We we covered Gunstar in, I think, season two. Right?

Unknown Speaker (40:54): Or is

Jaymo (40:54): it Yeah. Season two. And we learned that, yeah, you're right. The the the the devs were getting frustrated because Konami wasn't taking enough chances. So they broke off, started their own studio.

Jaymo (41:03): But to bankroll Gunstar Heroes, they couldn't make their dream game. They first had to make a Ronald McDonald game, and that and that game was so successful that then led to their success of Gunstar Heroes. So, you know, you gotta you gotta put the grind in. Right? My favorite boss fight was the doctor after the doctor betrays you.

Jaymo (41:22): Like, did anyone else drop an f bomb when that doctor ended up betray oh, did you guys get this far?

Unknown Speaker (41:27): No. No. No. Not at point.

Mike (41:30): The furthest I got normally like, for the normal pathway was against the hacker at the end of three.

Jaymo (41:38): Yes. The virtual reality boss fight.

Mike (41:40): And which which was neat, and it's a a bunch of different phases. So the first three are three constellations.

Unknown Speaker (41:46): Right. Like, sides of the zodiac.

Mike (41:48): Yeah. So you end up with Taurus and Sagittarius and Gemini, which two of those have attacks that make sense, and then Gemini is just being weird.

Unknown Speaker (41:56): Twins are weird. Yeah. It's like, I don't

Mike (41:58): know what they're doing with that one. Whereas Taurus is yeah. It's a bull. It charges you.

Unknown Speaker (42:01): Yeah.

Mike (42:01): Sagittarius is an archer. Fires arrows at you. And then it goes weird into, like, a bunch of squares in the form of a tank. Yeah. And that is where I had issues because and having looked at speedruns, everybody else, their net like, gun their natural fire height is the right height to hit that target.

Unknown Speaker (42:24): Oh, but Brownie's not.

Mike (42:25): Brownie is not. And so it's a lot harder because I had to keep jumping to try to do damage, and I didn't know how much was left of that. So I was like, okay. I'm I'm somewhere in this, and I don't know how far. And that was where I then went, checked speedruns, and saw the alternate route.

Mike (42:40): I'm like, oh, I may have a better shot at that than the rest of the game.

Jaymo (42:43): Yeah. The secret route is easily because it it's actually wild. The secret ending ends it in level three. Yeah. So you are cutting the game in half, but it's like, that's why it's the joke ending.

Mike (42:54): Yeah. And it's why I was like, okay. Nearly I can get through two of those, and then I couldn't get further. And I do appreciate that the continues let you pick up in there. You just don't have any you just don't have any weapons upgrades anymore.

Jaymo (43:09): Well, so you have the option of saving the scientist as your second level. And then later in the game, he will betray you and join the villains because he's too obsessed with the experimenting on the alien cell. And so the boss fight against him is really fun because he just sits in the background, and he has these two fusion chambers, at Jeff Goldblum and the fly. And he keeps grabbing different enemies from the level and, like, mixing and matching them to create a brand new enemy that flies out and attacks you. And one of them is, like, this completely benevolent little walking flower pot that just gives you power ups.

Jaymo (43:43): Like, it's the only ally character in the game. And then the final monster he creates ends up eating him, and it was ugh. It was it felt so so he got his comeuppance. I I love seeing that. Well, so is there anything we else we'd like to say about the game in terms of praise before we slide into the Joy Cons?

Markivus (44:05): I like what you said. So when it was Team Sega blast processing versus Super Nintendo mode seven, this was the eye candy, like, hey. Wait a minute. Sega can kinda do mode seven. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (44:17): So this was a chest out moment for a team Sega. It was just it was just too it was just hard.

Unknown Speaker (44:23): I always thought Sega was a little sexier person. I was like, come on. Like, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (44:30): I think I partially say I like I like the music to this as well. Yeah. And then one of the things I appreciated once I sort of let it play through was the gameplay clips this will do before you start the game. They're fairly long and show you a bunch of the different styles of gameplay. Like, that that is how I realized, hey.

Mike (44:52): Wait a minute. There's a run to the run towards the screen section because that wasn't a path I was taking. But, also, when I was paying attention to those and some of some of these were because I'd already reached that in the game. Rewatching it, they also did a really good job of highlighting tactics that would be useful. Yeah.

Mike (45:10): So they were picking parts where they would show, oh, this is a thing you can be doing to get gain an advantage. And I really like that in terms of a way to sort of without telling a player this is what you need to be doing, but showing the things to go and so you can watch it go, oh, wait. They slid to do this. Because it was something where, like, you could have jumped or something too. Right.

Mike (45:31): Oh, that's actually super useful to know about. And so I was kinda piecing together. Was like, that is actually giving you a lot of tips towards how to play this more successfully without them telling you what they're doing, and I I really like that.

Jaymo (45:44): You're giving me some PTSD about Metal Slug because I remember watching the attract screen of an arcade game being like, man, I wish I had the money to get to these levels. They look so cool.

Unknown Speaker (45:53): Oh, yeah. Thank god for emulators. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (45:56): There you go.

Unknown Speaker (45:56): One of my go tos right there.

Jaymo (45:58): So I want to ask you guys because I think it does ultimately end up being I don't know if it's a Joy Con or Joy Pro, but Gunstar Heroes at the start of the game, you gotta pick. Do you want to be able to move while you free aim, or do you want to be able to run and gun? It's two different gameplay styles than you pick at the beginning. This game, you change at the touch of a button between free aiming and running while you aim. Which which did you guys tend to use more?

Jaymo (46:25): I I I think I tended more towards the stop while you're shooting so you can get the angles on the bosses and kinda clear the room and then move forward. I just wish I could hold down the shoulder button like Call of Duty style, like looking down the scope, having to toggle between aiming and running. It kinda threw me off, and and and it would make some mistakes. Like, I would accidentally get hit because I was stuck in free aim mode and therefore not able to run away from the boulder or whatever. Which one did you guys use more?

Markivus (46:53): For me, just to calm my PTSD and then just being OG, I guess I had blaze of glory, running gun. Because it was just like so many things coming at you. And I'm like, I'm just trying to get to the next

Unknown Speaker (47:05): Right.

Markivus (47:06): So I OG running gun.

Jaymo (47:08): You just ran the gauntlet. Mike, Yeah. What'd you tend to use?

Mike (47:12): Actually, this was one of the other things. Really glad that dCycle stumbled into my Twitch stream with tips, was emphasizing how useful it is to switch between those two. Yeah. And so part of it was that I was usually on run and gun until I hit areas that I knew I was gonna need to concentrate a lot more firepower somewhere, like, especially bosses. And when I started to really appreciate that the problem with running gun, if you wanna do, like, to shoot on a diagonal is you're gonna move in that diagonal.

Mike (47:45): Yeah. And I basically tip, like, you need to get comfortable switching between these without it kind of like panicking you. Right. And so something like that boss at the end of the lab was a, oh, if I stand in the corner and switch the mode of fire over, I can now fire up on a diagonal where I'm not gonna get hit, and I just unleash until that thing enemy's dead. Whereas if I was trying to when I was trying to do the move around and find spots, I just wasn't.

Mike (48:14): Yeah. And so it really became a mostly in run and gun until I would come up against something and then it'd be like, okay. Where do I need to be for this?

Jaymo (48:23): Yeah. You kinda, like, pick your pick your spot and and anchor down. Yeah. I think there's some moments of sloppiness. Like, some of the levels will have enemies like you got like like you guys said, uses the background really effectively.

Jaymo (48:36): But sometimes it's like, okay. Is that enemy gonna fly behind me and I'm not gonna get hit? Or, oh, it's actually right in front of me. I did take damage. Or sometimes, like, I would I don't like how the bomb the the mega bomb attack, which is so helpful in this game, is in my regular rotation of items.

Jaymo (48:53): I wish there was a different button combination to use that thing because I can't count how many times I accidentally set my bomb off on an empty screen. And I was like, ugh. I could feel so stupid.

Mike (49:03): The the flip side of that is it's also super useful because if you have that selected, when you die, you don't lose it or any other weapons.

Unknown Speaker (49:12): Yeah. Oh. Oh. That's a good hack right there.

Jaymo (49:16): I like that. That's smart, Mike. I see you. Okay.

Mike (49:19): Like, which granted, when you can when one damage kills you, the it's very limited spots where that's useful. Right. The speedruns, everybody uses the Japanese version. Sure. And they will deliberately take deaths, but they will rotate over to that.

Mike (49:34): Like, okay. You know, I've taken a little bit of damage. I wanna take a death now where I can control it, switch over to that on purpose. They can use it a lot more strategically because you can take you that's not the one hit kill. I use that in the junkyard on purpose.

Jaymo (49:51): So is the game too hard? Because, like, it's called hardcore. So I think it'd be worse if it was too easy. Right? Yeah.

Jaymo (49:58): Like, if you're gonna air in one direction and your game's called hardcore.

Mike (50:03): I'm kind of of the view that if you're doing a, oh, this is gonna be arcade style, I don't believe continues should be limited.

Jaymo (50:12): Okay. Let me try let me try this level over and over again.

Mike (50:15): Yeah. Like like, let me do that. If you're if you're gonna do the arcade mode, I would I, a 100%, would much rather have the Japanese version or the option to have the Japanese version.

Jaymo (50:25): Yeah. Yeah. That was a bummer to discover it wasn't in there. I this is nitpicky. Okay?

Jaymo (50:30): But it's really bothered me. Do you have these four different characters, and they their gameplay styles are different, and they look different, and they're they're really cool. And and then in the story, they all have identical dialogue boxes. Like, how difficult would it have been? Maybe I don't know.

Jaymo (50:48): I don't know programming. Maybe it would be really difficult. But to, like, have Brownie who's supposed to be this fun, cheery robot, he should talk to the enemies more innocently, You know? And and and Brad Fang, he's supposed to be, like, the tough as nails half wolf. You know?

Jaymo (51:01): And so why does he say the exact same thing as Sheena? Like, I just feel like that that little touch would have really made it feel like these were distinct characters and not just, like, different sets of weapons. But I'm I'm nitpicking because they weren't about to get into it, but I really like this game. Like, this game this game's list slaps. What, Mike?

Jaymo (51:21): Well, I want

Mike (51:21): you say one problem that you didn't encounter. Some of these cut scenes are super long, and that's not a problem the first time.

Unknown Speaker (51:31): Okay.

Mike (51:31): But, like so level two, where it's you're doing one or two paths. Oh, the air the air police? It is a whole long thing. And, like, I died a lot. I saw that a ton, and it hits this point where even even the opening, which I appreciate because it is sort of a thing crashing through several enemies.

Mike (51:54): And I eventually realized, oh, that is actually showing me the two, like, mini bosses that I'm gonna be up against.

Unknown Speaker (51:59): Yeah. He

Unknown Speaker (52:00): does that.

Jaymo (52:00): He crashes through the spider.

Mike (52:02): Crashes through the spider and also crashes through the the guy who is firing, like, grenades or something. Yeah. And so it actually is like, oh, those are actually the two little mini bosses that will be a problem before I get to the main stuff. All of that is, like, unskippable. And so that was stuff that I was sitting through a lot, and it hit a certain point.

Mike (52:18): I'm like, you know, I get I get what's happening here. Can I please get back to the being killed part of this?

Jaymo (52:26): What what you're saying is that you got sick of seeing the van crashing through the city streets. Like, that's a you're right. That's a really cool cutscene until you've seen it 20 times.

Mike (52:35): Yeah. Especially when I started, and I I might not have lasted as long as that cutscene the first time through. Yeah. I I got wiped out real fast the first couple. So there was definitely a part where I'm like, you know, I'd like to be able to skip this at some point.

Jaymo (52:53): Yeah. Well and you know something? I just realized, I'm gonna play a little segment with our listeners here because I tried to get the highest score I possibly could from starting at the beginning of the game and using no continue. So three lives, how far can you get? So for this high score in thirty one years ago segment, I want my Discord to try to beat my score 100,909 points, which was getting to level three, and I could never quite get I I got to the secret boss fight and and could not win it.

Unknown Speaker (53:27): What did you say that was?

Jaymo (53:29): 100,909. And to be clear, it has to be from the beginning because if you use a continue, your score resets, but enemies in later parts of the game give you more points. So it's gotta be starting from the beginning. So, Mark, I don't know if you're gonna go back to this, but when you if you do, try and and email us.

Unknown Speaker (53:47): Oh, I'm sure.

Mike (53:48): I'm really annoyed because mine mine was ninety eight thousand seven seventy two.

Unknown Speaker (53:53): Nice. Oh, so I did

Mike (53:55): getting to level three. Okay. Okay. Honestly, it I likely died at that boss just before you go underground Yeah. Is probably what wrecked it for me.

Jaymo (54:07): Yeah. Yeah. The garbage boss. That garbage boss is garbage. Hot take.

Mike (54:13): Other minor criticism, and I think this mostly showed up on the in the junkyard because there's a lot of debris Yes. In that fight. It's a junkyard. It is. But my issue with the debris is it's debris that won't do damage to you Yeah.

Mike (54:28): That often looks very similar to things that will.

Unknown Speaker (54:31): Yeah. That well, that's I that's the challenge of that level, though. Like, the enemies you're talking about die in one hit, so it is supposed to be, like, disorienting. It's like

Mike (54:39): a smoke screen, you know, and it's like That is the other thing is they later don't die in one hit, it looks like, when we did multiplayer.

Unknown Speaker (54:46): Yes. We touched on that. Mark, did you ever play this game with somebody on your Sega Genesis Mini? Did they give you two controllers?

Markivus (54:52): Oh, yeah. So I, yeah, I have two controllers. Yeah. But they, yeah, they didn't last long.

Unknown Speaker (54:58): Do you have

Unknown Speaker (55:00): kids by any chance? No. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (55:03): This game is it's like the commercial, the grinder. They yeah.

Unknown Speaker (55:08): That's called fatherhood? Okay. I get the metaphor now. Okay. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (55:11): Yeah. But so Mike and I booted this up and played two player mode, and and, like, I had fun. I don't know if you had fun. I had fun. Did you like it?

Unknown Speaker (55:19): I think I preferred single player more, but I think that's because of how it makes the adjustments from single player to two player.

Unknown Speaker (55:24): You just don't like me. That's what it is, isn't it?

Mike (55:26): I don't like that they I think because it's like they keep the number number of continues the same, and you just drain off lives from the other person with you die first.

Jaymo (55:36): That is better, though, than having player two die and having

Mike (55:38): to wait. I would have preferred more continues Sure. And keeping that accounting separate. Because then it also feels like, well, I don't wanna jump back in because now I'm just taking one of your lives, and that feels like more frustrating than just sitting out.

Jaymo (55:53): Yeah. This would be a fun party game if it was the Japanese version and we had unlimited continues and people are having drinks. And, like, how far can we get together? Because I do think on some level, when a game is this hard, like Cuphead style, and if you guys have messed with Cuphead, but it's like, it's fun with the two player mode because you're suffering and you're laughing together about how insanely difficult this game is. Well, guys, I think we've covered the joy pros, the joy cons, and every bit in between.

Jaymo (56:18): So it's time to declare today's game as a Nintendo or a Nintendo don't. Mark, can we start with you?

Markivus (56:25): I'm a say Nintendo. Even though it's hard, it's still an impressive game. And it I I think it aged well. So, yeah, Nintendo for for me.

Jaymo (56:34): Excellent. Yeah. I for my first Contra game, I was surprised and delighted. I think between the selectable characters, the pseudo three d segments, branchable story moments, this had a lot more creativity and fun than I was expecting. And I wasn't expecting to be bad.

Jaymo (56:51): I just it feels like a gem that I had been missing out on, honestly. So I'm so grateful to both of you guys for giving me an excuse to play it. It is a Nintendo for me. And in our and standings, which is the mathematical average between my ranking and Mike's, I have placed Contra Hardcore right above Gunstar Heroes. I do think that although I loved Gunstar Heroes, it is my twenty seventh favorite game out of a 105 or whatever.

Jaymo (57:23): I think Contra Cardcourt gets the edge. There's something a bit crunchier, a bit a bit more American about it. I don't know. It just it just it just really hits me in my happy spot. But it also is right below Sin and Punishment, which I think is also another great shooter.

Jaymo (57:40): But I think Sin and Punishment is a bit more imaginative, especially with how that game have you messed with that one, Mark?

Unknown Speaker (57:46): No. I haven't.

Jaymo (57:47): It's the the n n 64 game where you hold the middle and the left side of the trident and lee it's like one of the only games where it's dual stick. Okay. It's wild. It's it's so weird. And the whole thing is like a metaphor for being afraid to commit to your romantic partner, but you're fighting Kaiju and missiles.

Unknown Speaker (58:05): I'm not kidding. It's a wild episode. Check it out episode two. We covered Gunstar Heroes and Son and Punishment.

Unknown Speaker (58:10): I'm about to sit there, though.

Jaymo (58:11): It's it's a good time. So, Mike, Nintendon, and your andstanding.

Mike (58:16): I think it it's definitely a Nintendoo for me on the edge of what I might consider a Super Nintendo. I think if I'd had those two little things out of the Japanese version, honestly, even one of the two might do it Yeah. To make this feel just a touch less punishing or at least, you know, infinite continues, so I could just feel like I just keep going. Yeah. Okay.

Mike (58:39): Probably would have put it in my top 10.

Jaymo (58:42): Woah. I was feeling like you were feeling it. I'm into it. Okay.

Mike (58:46): Yeah. And it as it was, like, I still kept coming back to this. So I ended up putting this at number 13, which puts it just it does put it a a few spots above Gunstar Heroes as well. Like Okay. I very much compared the two in my head.

Mike (59:00): For me, it puts it right above Mario Tennis, right below Breath of Fire two.

Unknown Speaker (59:05): That's a weird chunk, Mike. Twelfth favorite game, Breath of Fire two. Thirteenth, Contra Hardcore. Fourteenth, Mario Tennis. Like, what tone shifts?

Jaymo (59:14): That's wild. Alright. So without further ado, our official and standing, not Mike, not J Mo, but the and in between Contra Hardcore is our fourteenth favorite game right above shining force and right below Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball.

Unknown Speaker (59:33): Wow. Tied with shining force.

Jaymo (59:35): Tied with Shining Force. Yes. Excuse me. I never read that correctly. Okay.

Jaymo (59:41): And there's Sonic there's a Genesis representing, like, the kind of well, not top 10, but at the base of it. Like, it's a good There

Unknown Speaker (59:50): we go.

Jaymo (59:50): Good Genesis foundation. How's that sit with you, Marcus? Did you agree better than did you play Shining Force? You were a Genesis kid.

Markivus (59:56): Yeah. I played Shining Force. It it fits good with me. And like you said, to me, Gunstar Heroes is a little bit cartoonish, and hardcore is, like you said, a little bit more hard and gritty. So I

Jaymo (1:00:06): agree. I agree. Totally agree. Nothing wrong with with with kinda anime aesthetics, but there's something there's something where this hits different. I think

Mike (1:00:15): for me, this felt closer to a I could memorize a this is what I have to do, and can I do it well? And I feel like Guns Sword Heroes was a little bit more not or was a little less that.

Jaymo (1:00:26): Yeah. More chaotic, more like you're gonna take damage. So it just it just felt a little less refined. Wow. I'm I'm stoked.

Jaymo (1:00:33): I'm glad we all agree this game rocks. So the results for Contra Hardcore, a resounding Nintendo. Guys,

Unknown Speaker (1:00:41): we're

Jaymo (1:00:41): gonna call that game over for today. Markivas, the 40 gamer yourself, thank you so much for sharing your light and your forty something years of wisdom with us today. Before we get on out of here, why don't you remind our listeners where they can find your stuff?

Markivus (1:00:54): Yep. So you can find us on platform, every podcast streaming platform, 40 gamers. You can find my music, Markivas Nias, Furious, and then also on my Markivas, YouTube channel. We have video, episodes as well as we have our retro rewind video game demos that we do. I think I may need even though it's not gonna be long enough, I'll show up and embarrass myself playing Contra Hardcore.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:21): Yes. That's where you can find me. So

Jaymo (1:01:23): Well, that all sounds n e excellent. Join us next time, and we'll be barreling our way an all time classic, Donkey Kong on the NES and Donkey Kong on the Game Boy. Same title, wildly different games. It's gonna be a wild time. Also, don't forget to visit www.theoldswitcharue.com.

Jaymo (1:01:43): There you can find links to our Spotify, our Discord, YouTube, TikTok, and all the social medias you can shake a joystick at. Big thanks to Crystal Fields for our incredible intro song. And please, dear listener, don't forget to like and subscribe. Every click means a lot, and you just mean so much to us. Until next time, this has been the old Switcheroo, where we've been talking gaming retro with Mike and J Mo.

Unknown Speaker (1:02:04): I've been Mike.

Unknown Speaker (1:02:05): And I've been J Mo. Game on, everyone.