S4E04: Solomon's Key -or- An Old Testament to Your Skill

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dear friends, practice operation
because it's time for the old

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switcheroo where we're talking
gaming retro with Mike and Jamo.

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I'm Mike and I'm Jamo.
Join us on our epic quest to

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research and review all 300 plus
retro games in the Nintendo

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Classics catalog.
Today we are unlocking the

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secrets of the NES puzzle
adventure Solomon's Key in an

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episode we are calling an Old
Testament to your skill.

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If you like what you hear, don't
forget to like, subscribe and of

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course, play along.
Now, Mike, got to be on your

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best behavior.
Today I'm introducing to my work

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friends for the first time.
Please welcome to the show 1 of

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the only people who can make me
break a sweat on the pickleball

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court, my fellow middle school
teacher, Alex.

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Alex, how was your last student
day today?

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My last student day.
Well hopefully our boss doesn't

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listen to this, but I squeaked
out a little bit early to go

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play around around the golf.
But anyway.

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Just like 20.
Minutes early.

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Well, don't worry because our
bus started the holiday party a

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little early so.
OK.

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This is already our most
incriminating episode. 00.

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So Alex, any plans for the
holidays?

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Are you and your brothers are
going to get back together and

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play more of these old games?
Oh man, we'll get into that a

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little bit later, but we had
such a blast the other day.

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He wants me.
He wants me to come back and and

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play everything he has already.
We had so much fun.

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Great.
Well, you know, direct him

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towards our Discord and, you
know, maybe we'll have him on

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next.
That'd be fun.

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Yeah.
So guys, I think if we're ready,

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let's dive into Solomon's Key,
released for the NES in 1987.

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As described on Nintendo
Classics as Dana, a skilled and

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talented war hero, you must
strategically maneuver through

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over 40 stages using mysterious
block creation skills and other

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magical powers.
Free the captive fairy in each

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stage by finding the bell and
escape by grabbing the Magic

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Key.
Use quick thinking and magical

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firepower to discover hidden
items and evade numerous enemies

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as you race against the clock.
Solomon's Key also features over

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10 secret levels and multiple
endings you can unlock.

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Do you have what it takes to
unravel the secrets of Solomon's

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Key?
I don't know.

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That's a pretty good
description, Alex, don't you

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think?
Yeah, what is this play time?

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Five hours and 54 minutes.
That is how long I played the

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game to prepare for this
episode.

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Oh, OK.
Yeah, you can see exactly how

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long you've spent playing.
I love it.

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You could add about 30 years to
that and you got mine.

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Yeah, you have a long history
with this game.

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I do.
So Speaking of your long

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history, I am maybe the most
excited I've ever been to talk

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about box art because Alex was
nice enough to bring me his copy

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of Solomon's Key so that I could
actually hold the freaking

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things in my hand.
And you know, it's just such a

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cool experience.
I really appreciated that you

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have the player character Dana
the Wizard balancing

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precariously on suspended
blocks, casting a spell and

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clutching a key while the
dreaded demon headed attacked.

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Enemies attack in waves.
Pair of fairies watch

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supportively from the background
while the marketing team at

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Tecmo touts the game's half a
million soldiers in Japan.

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Mike, I'm going to give you like
this box.

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Art Yeah, I'm going to start off
like the thought for Solomon's

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key is a pretty standard sort of
block font, except the O in

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Solomon and the E in key have
been replaced by a key, and that

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is just great.
Yeah, what a natural.

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Like the key just forms those
letters naturally.

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It's not, doesn't look like it's
kind of forced in there, but I

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also think it really
demonstrates what the gameplay

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is like.
Alex did so, so you kept the

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box.
Tell me how you feel about it.

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Well, I actually borrowed it
from my little brother who's

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just into retro games.
Our original copy, man, that

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thing would have been who knows
where that is.

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Probably taken to a thrift store
or something back in the in the

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90s.
But I did go to play with my

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little brother and he had the
game in the box, so I asked him

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to borrow it so I can show you.
Yeah, it's, it's it's like I'm

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terrified.
Like I hope you said I was OK to

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open it right?
Absolutely, Absolutely.

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Absolutely.
That's just Mike always reads

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the manuals for the show and so
like for me to actually flip,

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flip through the actual manual.
Super cool feeling.

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I very eager to get your guys's
opinion on the Commodore 64

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release.
Alex, have you seen this?

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No.
So when this was released for

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the Commodore 64, very different
vibe.

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Alex, would you describe what
you're looking at?

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I wouldn't know what I'm looking
at.

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It looks like something.
Yeah.

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I have no idea it almost.
Looks like a Harlequin novel

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cover because Dana is now super
buff and barely clothed at all.

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Is it so this is after NES?
Yeah, this was the Commodore 64

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port.
OK.

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Which, you know, they had, you
know, a bit more improved

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graphics.
But I also think it's

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interesting that, you know,
they've done away with the

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blocks, and it's almost like
they're trying to explain.

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Mike, do you see in the center
background of the Commodore 64

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cover art what this is meant to
imply?

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I think it's much.
Is that meant to imply a block

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having disappeared?
Or like being created right?

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Like pretty cool.
It's so the.

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Outline there.
You got the giant scorpions.

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Yeah, all of this really feels a
lot closer to more like he kind

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of makes me think of like a
Conan the Barbarian kind of

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thing.
Yeah.

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Yeah, and I was like, one of the
things I like about Dana as a

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character is that he's not, he's
not physically imposing.

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You know, It's like you got to
use your magic and your wits.

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So mention on Discord which one
you think is better, but I think

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the first one is far superior.
I don't know.

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Right, boys.
Yes.

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For sure super classic.
So Solomon's key was directed by

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Kanichi Nishi.
We will meet him again when we

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cover the NES puzzle game Fire
and Ice, otherwise known as What

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Alex?
Well, it's a, it's a, it's a

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prequel.
Yeah, Solomon's too.

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Did you ever play this one?
Never played it.

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Never played it.
It's on the Switch.

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It's actually kind of an
interesting story conceit

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because the the game, the
premise of the game, is that

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it's all a tale that an old
woman is telling her

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grandchildren about how Dana
learned magic and went from

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apprentice to wizard.
Oh wow.

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Yeah, and it's, you know, it's
the same character graphics are

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definitely improved, but I
think, I think that Mike's gonna

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really dig this game.
I was messing around with it a

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little bit.
It's just so much more precise

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than Solomon's key was.
And so Speaking of name changes,

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this game was given a complete
Samurai reskin when it was

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released as Zipang for the Turbo
graphics to capitalize on the

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retro futuristic sci-fi samurai
film of the same name.

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Dana's wand was replaced by a
samurai sword and all the

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enemies are re imagined as
eastern cryptids like Monkey

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Warriors and Kappas.
Alex, you ever messed around

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with Zipang?
No, no, never heard of it.

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Is that a pyramid though?
The pyramid.

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What do you want to?
Oh, yeah, in the.

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Yeah, That's interesting.
Are there pyramids in ancient

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Japan?
I don't feel like I've heard of

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that.
I think so, especially not kind

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of that kind of a look to one.
It is also interesting to me,

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and I will get to this with the
original game as well, that the

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layout you are showing us on
this very much has a Star of

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David outline to it, right?
Which is in Solomon's key as

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kind of a thing.
It was just a rescan, they

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didn't change levels.
Interesting.

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So some imagery doesn't really
make sense anymore.

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So according to a 2019 developer
interview conducted by Kotaku

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writer Peter Terius, the monster
design in Solomon's Key was

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heavily inspired by Midway's
Quarter Muncher Gauntlet, which

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was covered by our friends at
the Arcadiology podcast, as well

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as with the Ray Harryhausen film
Jason and the Argonauts.

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I've never seen this movie, is
it good?

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I have never seen this movie.
The stop motion one.

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No.
The stop motion stands out, I

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suppose, like it.
It's very much what you expect

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out of a Harryhausen stop
motion, which is that kind.

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It has that.
It's not stop motion that I

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think you look at and go that's
I didn't realize that's not

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real, right.
But at the same time, like I

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think it's still is this kind of
thing you can appreciate.

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Yeah, yeah.
It's like stylistically cool.

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Yeah.
I'll never forget I went to a

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Comic Con panel for Ray
Harryhausen and I just walked

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right in because there were
seats empty and there's people

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out the door lining up for the
next panel like no, no, no, cut

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in.
I'm like, I want to see this one

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and I can see empty seats.
Can I please go inside?

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You know what I mean?
So I I'd always appreciate good

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stop motion.
And so continuing in the fun

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tradition we touched on last
episode, where in Tecmo games

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feature fun references to their
other IP, Solomon's Key has an

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incredibly difficult to find
cameo that I was really excited

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to talk to Alex about.
But of course he already knew

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it.
Alex, can you talk about Mighty

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Bomb Jack in Solomon's Key?
Yeah, You know, I, I never

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played Mighty Bomb Jack, but I
know, I mean, I didn't know at

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the time, but you could finish
the game as him or I don't know

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how that works, but I saw I just
wanted fired up a YouTube video

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and saw somebody doing this.
Yeah, it's really wild.

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So in a couple of the levels you
can.

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So one of the mechanics in the
game is that you jump and you

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break a block above your head
like Mario style.

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Yeah.
And if you jump into one block,

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which which by all accounts
should not break, it's a steel

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block, right?
Those don't break in this game.

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But if you jump and hit it 11
times, Mighty Bomb Jack will fly

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up the top and start jumping
around and when you collect him

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it turns every enemy into a
fairy.

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OK.
Which is pretty.

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Cool, like it's a good way to
rack up like, extra lives.

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I think, I think in by the time
I played this game, you would

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have never have known this.
I mean, no, there's no Internet

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to go do that.
I mean, I, I played with a, a

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cousin, his name was Mike as
well.

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He was six years older than me
when we played the game

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together.
He made you go dissect

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everything.
He would go have you like you

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would have to search for
everything before you kind of

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let you move on to the next
level.

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Right.
He would pause the game right

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when a new level would come on
and he would like, he thought he

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was John Madden or something,
drawing up a play on how we

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should strategically play it.
I think he's part of the reason

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why I'm why I'm such an
impatient person.

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But yeah, he would.
He would even draw the levels

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because that's how he was.
Wait, hold on, Mike, go get your

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blueprints notebook.
I feel like this is right up

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here out there.
We we just guest hosted on our

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like a show called Smashing game
Time and Mike has a notebook for

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one game for one game.
So.

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00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,520
So maybe it's a mic thing?
That's right.

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Yeah, he he, he can.
He was a lot older than us so he

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kind of controlled how we were
allowed to play the level.

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Yeah.
This is the kind of game that

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kind of lent itself to that
though in that like I cuz I

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don't think the I don't think
the manual mentioned that you

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can warp levels.
No, no.

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And that was something that like
I watched a speed run of this

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and aside from doing that, they
did the the bomb Jack thing to

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get an extra life to kind of
have a bit of a cushion.

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00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,960
But one of the other things that
they were doing was getting some

227
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,640
of the warps.
And there are things like you

228
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,080
have to get up to a certain
corner and put a block and then

229
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,360
remove a block to get the warp.
And it's like, and there's like,

230
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,040
yeah, there's no way you like,
you don't just find this, no.

231
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,640
Well, you actually do because
some of the stuff you would find

232
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,840
we would, we would, we would
spend hours on one level just to

233
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,920
make sure we, we didn't miss
anything as kids.

234
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,960
So because like I said, you just
you had to figure out your

235
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,600
figure it out yourself.
How did you spend hours on one

236
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,680
level?
I think we really wanted to beat

237
00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:29,480
the game and I'll, you know,
tell you right now, never beat

238
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:34,520
the game, but you would just go
through and put a block in every

239
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,200
open area and break it and to
see if anything was there.

240
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,720
What I mean by that is, so the
way this game works is that

241
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,720
you've got only a handful of
lives.

242
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,760
You have a timer that's counting
down.

243
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,280
Yeah.
When that runs out, the life's

244
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,840
over.
And then when you're out of

245
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,720
lives, it sends you back to the
beginning.

246
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,880
Correct.
Maybe.

247
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,680
Maybe it'd be paused for some
time and we would break down the

248
00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:01,440
level OK, And if it was not
early on in the game, let's say

249
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,840
you get to level 7, you would
accept spending all your life

250
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,800
searching level 7 to make it to,
making sure you didn't miss

251
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,920
anything.
Well, and the later half of the

252
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,800
game you have to be that
thorough because like I totally

253
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,560
used the guide and if I hadn't,
you would have to mate your own

254
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,200
guide.
But so what's cool though, is

255
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,360
that so Alex comes up to me in
the copy room and he goes like

256
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,960
my brothers and I would have
this thing where after you die,

257
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,760
if you like, jam some buttons,
you can restart without going

258
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,720
back to level 1.
And so Mike is trying to play

259
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,040
this game like an honest man
where I use the rewind features

260
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,680
and strategy guides and
whatever.

261
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,560
But so I confirmed Alex that
that actually works

262
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:39,800
consistently.
You press A&B and is it up mic

263
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,600
or is it start up?
Up So I played the first.

264
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,680
We played this game for at least
a year, possibly 2, without

265
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:49,200
knowing you could continue in
the game.

266
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,720
Yeah.
So one day we go to my cousin's

267
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,320
house and he's like, I think I
figured out how to continue.

268
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,000
It doesn't work every time, but
here's what you do.

269
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,920
You just start ramming all the
buttons and AB like all the

270
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,320
buttons and you get to start at
the level, you know, you you

271
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,200
just died at, which was a
completely game, you know,

272
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,840
complete game changer.
So then we had like this

273
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,240
resurgent of trying to beat the
game because being able to

274
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,200
continue, you're like, wow, we
have a chance.

275
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,800
Because without being able to
continue when you're a 10 year

276
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,560
old kid playing this 11, it was
just, you know, we just couldn't

277
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,120
do it.
Yeah, So have you ever beaten

278
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,000
this game?
No and I I I went to my cousin

279
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,360
or sorry my brother's house
Saturday we we played for four

280
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:41,680
hours ripped through got to
level 38 and struggled on that

281
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,280
for like an hour.
I don't and was just getting so

282
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,480
annoyed.
Ended up getting past it.

283
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,960
Once you get to level 41 though,
it's an easy level.

284
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,680
Then you get to 42, a tough
level.

285
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,440
If you die on 42434445 all the
way to 48, you go back to 41.

286
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,400
So you can't die on 43 and stay
on 43.

287
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,400
Which is cool because it's like
a limitation built into the

288
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,920
cheat code.
Correct, correct.

289
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,920
But the problem is, you know,
watching somebody play through

290
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:18,240
on YouTube, they could get to
level 41 with 15 lives in a in a

291
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,960
ton of fireballs.
Let's say you die on 43.

292
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,280
You go back to 41, you have no
fireballs, and you have 3 lives.

293
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,800
Yeah, but you know what you do
have?

294
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,640
You do have the ability to
rewind on Nintendo Switch, which

295
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,080
means I'm sorry to do this to
you, Alex, but I nintended beat

296
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,880
this game.
Oh man.

297
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,360
I'm a.
Computer Mike, I'm going to take

298
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,840
again, this is this is widely
regarded as one of the toughest

299
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,400
NES games of all time.
Mike, I'm how'd you do?

300
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:52,360
So without knowing that, I could
just kind of continue at where I

301
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,280
was.
You're welcome and thank you,

302
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:55,200
Alex.
Yeah.

303
00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,440
Yes.
I was getting to level 5.

304
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,240
Yeah.
I'll get into here where this

305
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,080
kind of foreshadow stuff, but it
kind of covers sort of my take

306
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,320
on that with level 5, where you
have to basically get a key and

307
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:11,680
then get all the way up to the
top.

308
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,680
It was the first level of these
that really felt like this

309
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,200
wasn't a puzzle.
Yeah.

310
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,640
It was.
It was much more action

311
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,080
platformer.
There's like reflexes.

312
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,760
Yeah, especially with the time,
with the timer like I had, I had

313
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,360
to run where I think I was like,
OK, I've got something working

314
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,160
and I just couldn't do it fast
enough to get to where I needed

315
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,640
to get to for the approach I was
using.

316
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,520
And part of the problem was I'd
get there and I would often be

317
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,320
at like, well, I'm at one life.
I have one shot, and then I'm

318
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,840
back to the beginning.
Yeah, once I could keep going a

319
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:54,840
bit further, then I was able to
get to level 10 and then level

320
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,240
10.
I have no freaking idea what

321
00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,440
like it, I was dead so fast
every time.

322
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,480
I'm looking at the level right
now, and I'm going to brag a

323
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,640
little bit.
I haven't played this game in 30

324
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,200
years.
It all came back to you.

325
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,119
I knew what to do on that level
immediately.

326
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,800
You got to wait for the fireball
to come back down and you got to

327
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,040
block it in.
You got to trap that fireball

328
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,680
that's chasing you.
So.

329
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,359
But like those are I played that
level, I don't know, hundreds of

330
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,720
times as a kid.
Because I think 10 is the only

331
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,720
two guys coming straight at you
and it's 3 tiers or I think that

332
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,880
was 10.
Let me see one.

333
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,960
I may be off by level 16.
Well, this.

334
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,120
Every level in this game has a
ton of monsters coming at you.

335
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:35,520
It's really stressful.
They're 2.

336
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,120
Running right at you.
Yeah.

337
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,560
And you're on the same level as
them.

338
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,960
And and so basically I think
what you have to do is very

339
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,600
quickly put down a block, jump
on top of it, put down another

340
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,480
block, jump on top of that and
get up above them.

341
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,120
Yeah.
And I just from when it starts

342
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,520
just executing that fast enough,
right?

343
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,880
Yes, was so difficult.
And I was always the youngest,

344
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,840
my brother's two years older, my
cousin Mike's six years older

345
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,280
than myself.
I, I was watching them play at

346
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,480
these levels before I even had a
crack at them.

347
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,160
So I was learning from all their
mistakes, getting to level 10,

348
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,160
seeing them struggle.
I, I have all the levels on my

349
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,120
phone right now and I'm looking
at level 10.

350
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:21,720
And it once you know what to do,
it's all easy.

351
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,200
But.
Figuring out what you need to

352
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,840
do, what your first couple moves
are.

353
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,480
And this game's interesting
because they'll throw a

354
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,320
challenging level at you on
level 10 and then they'll follow

355
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,560
it up with like the the most
easy level on 11.

356
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,240
You know they don't, They don't
progressively get harder.

357
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,000
What I liked about it is that
there were different types of

358
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,560
challenges.
So some, like Mike said, some

359
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,560
missions you start and there's
these demons right in your face.

360
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,160
Some levels have no enemies at
all.

361
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,600
You are not in any risk of
dying.

362
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,400
It's a pure time challenge.
And there's so many blocks to

363
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,560
break and navigate and climb up
and down and you have to figure

364
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,760
out the exact path to take
through the blocks.

365
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,680
It really is like a maze.
And I thought those are some of

366
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,400
my favorite levels because it's
like it was the least satisfying

367
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,120
when I would just miss time a
jump.

368
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,160
But yes, when I'm actually kind
of given the breathing room to

369
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,520
really play with a chamber.
I thought that was when the

370
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,080
game, Mike, did you get to any
of those?

371
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,480
What do you mean to any of
those?

372
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,200
Though any other rooms where
there are no monsters.

373
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,360
The hidden rooms is what they
call them.

374
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:26,960
Oh, are those the hidden ones
only?

375
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,800
Yeah, you got to get a shrine in
a hidden shrine and then that

376
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,160
gets you to the hidden levels.
I think the point of the hidden

377
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,960
levels are to let you build up
your arsenal like you're low on

378
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,960
fireballs.
They'll give you a lot of stuff,

379
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,840
Get extra fairies, yeah.
That's good to know because one

380
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,920
of my complaints with the game
was that like I once I was in

381
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,720
the second-half of the game, I
was like, where are all the

382
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,280
fireballs?
Yeah.

383
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,640
I had fun throwing these and
like I haven't.

384
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,160
I haven't found.
I don't think I found.

385
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,440
No, I do.
Think, well, you know, you

386
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,840
could, you could change those.
I don't even know what they are.

387
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,160
The blue diamond things.
You could you could hit it with

388
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,640
your wand and change it to a
fireball if you're short on

389
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,960
fireballs.
Oh, the crystal balls can be

390
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,560
turned into ammo.
Yes.

391
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,040
Oh.
You hit it with your wand and

392
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,600
you could turn it into a
fireball.

393
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,960
That that is really cool to know
because I kept seeing these

394
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,360
crystal balls and it's like in
the booklet they just say that

395
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,000
they changed the behavior of
your fireball.

396
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,120
They'll make it go longer or
they'll make it like last, you

397
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:28,520
know, longer on the screen.
But that's a cool that's a cool

398
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,040
trick.
I like that, Alex.

399
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,400
Yeah, I don't know if it's a
trick.

400
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,360
I think it's something we
figured out when we were 10

401
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:35,560
years old.
I'm Dumber than 10 year old you

402
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,600
like.
Come on, it's easy.

403
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,920
So, yeah, I mean, I think I
don't even know how we got our

404
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,280
hands on this game because it
wasn't a very popular game.

405
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,840
No, I think the games that I
have a lot of play back in the

406
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,960
80s.
Of course, Mario.

407
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,400
That's what came with the NES.
Yeah, we got our hands on Mike

408
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,600
Tyson's Punch Out.
Oh, man, That's.

409
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,160
I've played that so many times.
I listened to your podcast on

410
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,000
Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
I was pretty entertained.

411
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:05,600
Disappointed.
Disappointed.

412
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,120
You've never seen Rocky movies.
I I I'm not avoiding Rocky.

413
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,200
Look, you haven't seen Jason in
the Argonauts, OK?

414
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,960
I.
Can be OK, OK, all right.

415
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,160
I've never seen that either.
But so it was so funny you say

416
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,800
this game wasn't that popular,
but I was telling Mike like this

417
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,520
has happened multiple times in
our podcast where we'll see,

418
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,600
I'll see this obscure game to me
obscure in the catalog and I'll

419
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,520
run into somebody.
And I remember it was like, I

420
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,600
think over a year ago, I was
telling you about this podcast

421
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,680
and you're like, we gotta do the
classics like Solomon's Key.

422
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,000
And I'm like, who the hell has
heard of Solomon's key?

423
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,240
We gotta get Alex on here.
And and so here we are.

424
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,960
So I was pleasantly surprised by
this game.

425
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,120
I, I, I really like the block
mechanic.

426
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,840
I guess the developer was
inspired by a game called Load

427
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:56,240
Runner on the PC where you had
to dig away the level to trap

428
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,280
enemies.
And the developer of Solomon's

429
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,280
Key was like, how cool would it
be if you could spontaneously

430
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,960
create environment, you know?
Yeah, it said it's just

431
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,800
destroying it.
And then that's, that's what

432
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,840
made this, you know, game, you
know, come to be.

433
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,600
But I think like Minecraft kind
of owes a lot to this.

434
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,280
Mike, you get what I'm putting
down with that.

435
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:17,280
I don't.
Come on, Mike.

436
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,480
I don't think so.
God come on the block.

437
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,640
Create block creation and you
you can use them as platforms or

438
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,160
destroy them to suit your needs.
I I feel like the Minecraft devs

439
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,800
probably played this game.
I would not be surprised if he

440
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,120
hadn't.
Listen, I know you listen.

441
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:36,600
Minecraft.
Mojang, leave a comment.

442
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,960
I mean, it's specifically notch.
So this was a popular game then

443
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,560
I just, I don't like I said, I
don't know how we got our hands

444
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,560
on it.
I think, you know, recalling

445
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,880
1988, we had some neighbors and
they were going off to college

446
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,520
and they just kind of dumped
like 10 NES games, which were

447
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,560
like gold to us because this
isn't a game.

448
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,120
I would, we would have gone to,
you know, waited for Christmas

449
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:06,600
or pulled our money in to buy.
So I think it got dumped onto

450
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,800
US.
A quick little story.

451
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,120
My, my mom's second husband, my
stepdad, he was a professional

452
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,440
motocross rider.
He was paralyzed in a during a

453
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,640
race, chest down.
So he's still alive, he's in a

454
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,880
wheelchair.
But the one thing that would

455
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,800
bring him so much joy, he was 21
years old at the time was

456
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,880
playing Nintendo with us.
You know, he was a great athlete

457
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,080
and to have that taken away at
such a young age, he got a

458
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,640
guitar his, his parents got him
a guitar and we would buy him

459
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,480
some Nintendo games because he
was actually the first person

460
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,440
that started to play the game.
We would be, he didn't work for

461
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,160
about 3 years.
We'd be at school and we'd come

462
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,240
home at 3:00 and he'd be still
playing Solomon's key.

463
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,400
So, and he'd be all like, that's
a level 17 today.

464
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,560
And he's like, let me show you
guys.

465
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:06,560
But so there's a lot of
memorable times with this game,

466
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,120
and that was the one of them,
you know, seeing somebody who I

467
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:14,720
had this bad accident and this
game helped him get through some

468
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,640
tough days.
Yeah, I love that you shared

469
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,600
that because, like, I mean,
Alex, we have mutual friends who

470
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,000
have shared stories about how
gaming kept them company, you

471
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,680
know, in a rough time.
And and I love, I love that

472
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,080
games can do that.
And I love that you shared that.

473
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,480
So I I was really taken with how
this game plays.

474
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,600
You said you watched your
brothers play it a lot.

475
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,880
So is this one of your games or
was this one one that you liked

476
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,480
because your brothers liked?
I think it was one of those

477
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,800
games where like we just kind of
all watched each other play.

478
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,720
My cousin Mikey kind of dictated
things.

479
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,640
He, he lived in Santa Clarita.
I grew up in Palmdale.

480
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,400
But he would come spend 3 weeks
in the summer with us or vice

481
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,480
versa.
And in Palmdale, it's too hot to

482
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,160
play outside during 10:00 AM to
2:00 PM.

483
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,400
So we'd go in and we, we'd play,
we played a lot of Zelda, a lot

484
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,360
of Mike Tyson sponge out, but we
played this game a lot and it

485
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,680
was just like a team effort.
Mike would be like, oh, you're

486
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,640
really good at 7.
Alex, you, you, you got 7.

487
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,200
Steve, my brother, you got 8 and
I'll do 9.

488
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,840
So it's like, it's like once
you, once he saw you mastered a

489
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:30,760
level, he would give you the
controls because at the time not

490
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,960
being able to continue having to
go back to scratch was like, oh

491
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,040
man, it was, it was really
disheartening.

492
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,080
Can't give it to the little kid,
he's gonna screw it up for the

493
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,760
whole run like.
No, no.

494
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,000
I.
Just love that you're sitting on

495
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,320
this like I put me in coach,
like I'm ready to play.

496
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,960
Man, you watch enough, you're,
you're the youngest you, you're

497
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,360
like, it's like watching you're
like a backseat driver.

498
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:53,080
Cuz this game, Solomon's key,
there's a lot of different ways

499
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,280
you could be at a level.
And that's one of my favorite

500
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,680
things about it is the moments
of like, I can see what I think

501
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,600
they want me to do, but there's
a lot of enemies over there.

502
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,600
I'm going to make a little
staircase over here where

503
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,640
there's nobody.
And it's not the fastest way to

504
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,920
go, but I'm kind of doing it my
own way.

505
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,000
And that's my favorite kind of
puzzle game.

506
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,560
I like.
I don't really take as much

507
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,920
satisfaction in trying to figure
out what did the dev want me to

508
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,760
do.
And when you let your player

509
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,800
like, feel genuinely clever like
that, it's a good endorphin hit

510
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,480
in a way that not a lot of other
game genres I think can can

511
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,280
quite pull off.
It's made it interesting for

512
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,000
level 5 when we just kind of
have there's pretty much just

513
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,320
enemies on the side that will
shoot fireballs across, yeah.

514
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,640
Yeah, yeah.
I don't have to.

515
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,800
Get up to the top.
The way I ended up approaching

516
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,640
that, that takes forever because
I tried to just go up and like,

517
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,480
I can't.
I cannot create and jump on

518
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,480
platforms fast enough to just go
up.

519
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,120
Yeah.
And so like, OK, I need to do

520
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,280
something.
And I, I think I accidentally

521
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,800
realized that the enemies that
are on the side there, if you

522
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,160
put a block next to the one
they're on, they will move on to

523
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,720
it and then you can remove it
and they will fall and die.

524
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,200
And I'm like, OK, I can do this,
but then I've got to run back

525
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,120
and forth and clear out the
pickups that are already there

526
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:16,960
because they block the blocks,
which is annoying.

527
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,560
But like, so like, OK, And that
was a very long process.

528
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,560
And then I watched the
speedrunner, A speedrunner do

529
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,000
this and basically just build a
ladder straight up in one in one

530
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:36,400
go and was good enough to be
putting additional blocks to, to

531
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,360
stop the fireballs at the same
time to not like fall and

532
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,400
restart, which is because for
me, I'd have to dodge something.

533
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,240
Then I have to start the whole
process over again.

534
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,560
And it was interesting to see.
It's like, oh, I attempted that

535
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,480
and could not come at anywhere
close to making that work.

536
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,600
Mike, did you figure out you
could put a block behind you as

537
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,880
a fireballs come in and use it
as a shield?

538
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,040
Sometimes.
Oh yeah, yeah.

539
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,800
So if you go up the right side
of that level, you drop the guys

540
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,760
on the right by building a
block, killing them.

541
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,000
But while you're doing that, you
need to set a block behind you

542
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,000
as a shield.
That's the Safeway to play the

543
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,200
game, but I'm not one of those
speed runners.

544
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,160
We never played like that
because you couldn't risk a life

545
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,720
going up the middle like maybe
messing around you would.

546
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,360
So I didn't know whether to
count this as a joy Pro or Joy

547
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:29,040
con because I kind of feel sort
of mid, as the kids would say

548
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,440
about them.
Alex, how do you feel about the

549
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,880
monsters?
Or I guess I guess the demons is

550
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,200
a better term.
Well, there were some that

551
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,840
really didn't annoy you too
much, but the one.

552
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,000
There's ones you could jump,
there's ones you cannot jump.

553
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,280
I think the ones you could jump
weren't that stressful.

554
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,160
Right.
But you know, whatever those, I

555
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,440
don't even know if I could like
identify them.

556
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,920
The guys that spit fire like a
flame at you.

557
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,120
Yeah, the Dragons and the like
the.

558
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,480
Salamander things or.
Yeah, yeah.

559
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,240
You can't jump those guys.
And then they kind of pause to

560
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,720
blow fire, so they're really
tough to get by.

561
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,240
Yeah.
And then there's like the little

562
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,200
guys, what do they call it?
What do they call it?

563
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,720
The goblins the top right.
Yeah, the the little guys that

564
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,360
they see, I like their behavior.
Like when they see you, they

565
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,280
swing their arms like an angry
ape and just charge right at

566
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,960
you.
And so, but I I like you said.

567
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,080
It's your own fault.
Exactly.

568
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,560
It's that's the energy.
It's The Simpsons Bart Lisa

569
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,640
fight.
But you know, once you once they

570
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,680
don't see you when you jump over
them, they start moving slowly

571
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:32,480
again.
But that's kind of good

572
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,120
storytelling because like
they're kind of dim witted.

573
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,520
They already forgot you're right
there.

574
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,240
You know what I mean?
That's kind of fun.

575
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,920
But then also like I just I sort
of feel like the the monsters

576
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,160
kind of lacked personality a bit
like the ghost, for example.

577
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,360
Like they don't really do
anything that's ghost like to

578
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,640
me, they don't really go through
objects or anything.

579
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,000
And I just found the fires.
I mean, they call them burns

580
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,960
here and like in the game they
just look like a fire.

581
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,560
I found those pretty irritating.
Yeah.

582
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,520
Was an interesting thing that
like the because the manual

583
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,360
mentions this, yeah, basically
like they don't take up the full

584
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,120
block they're on.
Yeah.

585
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,240
And so you can share a block,
correct?

586
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,560
And, and again, that's where
this begins to feel much more

587
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:23,160
like a precise like action
platformer than a puzzle and

588
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,320
like watching someone good at
this do later levels and how

589
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,400
much of it relied on being able
to precisely land on just a part

590
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,760
of a block was fascinating, but
also really crystallized how I

591
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,840
felt about the game.
Yeah.

592
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,520
Did you know you could also hit
them with your?

593
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,960
Do they call it a wand?
Is that what they call it?

594
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:45,680
I think so.
Yeah.

595
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,680
A wand and you could tamp the
fire down.

596
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,360
Yeah.
And then you could, yeah.

597
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,800
And you could jump in like.
I was disappointed that didn't

598
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,240
that I couldn't just continue to
whack him with the wand until it

599
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,640
was.
Gone.

600
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,120
Yeah, like.
There was a little bit in

601
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,320
general with the enemies that I,
I think it was frustrating to

602
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,720
hit enemies or I'm like, I don't
actually have a way to eliminate

603
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,000
this enemy.
Yeah, to sort of allow the like,

604
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,240
OK, fine.
I'm clearing things out and like

605
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,360
there's at least one or two
spots was like, it's like this

606
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,440
doesn't feel like a strategic,
strategic spot.

607
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,280
I'm now just going to make a mad
rush for it and kind of hope

608
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,680
that I get to an exit first.
Yeah, I definitely did that.

609
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,120
There are definitely parts where
like I would dive through the

610
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,040
door at the last possible
second, but that felt like a

611
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,240
cool escape, you know what I
mean?

612
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,200
If like Indiana Jones, the the
boulder is chasing you and you

613
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,320
just barely squeak in at the
last second.

614
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,800
I was blown away though to learn
that the direction you entered

615
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,120
the door matters for the next
level.

616
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,920
Didn't know that.
Yeah, isn't that crazy, Alex?

617
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,040
So there are some puzzles where
they say OK, even though the

618
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,280
doors in front of you take the
long way around and drop into it

619
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,680
because in the next level, if
you start at the bottom of the

620
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,240
door, way easier.
Really.

621
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,280
Yeah, isn't that crazy?
What?

622
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,000
What's changing?
What's changing is where Dana

623
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,840
spawns.
You know, now that you've

624
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,400
mentioned that, I think I
learned that like many, many

625
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,520
years after playing that, and I
think I forgot that.

626
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,320
But yeah, I, I think I think
you're right.

627
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,960
Like so do you know when you
what section of the door you

628
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,320
should go in or that's you have
to figure out right you?

629
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,800
Have to know from OK, I got to
the next level and hey, if I

630
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,760
started above the door instead
of below it, this would be way

631
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,920
easier.
So like the Michael one I'm

632
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,200
mentioning is that like, you
know, the level begins, the cool

633
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,240
little star effects, the
constellation coalesces into

634
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,720
Dana's appearance.
And if you're holding down the

635
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,160
left joystick, he'll appear and
then you can just step over onto

636
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,280
a platform that's right there.
But below the door, you are

637
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,480
dropped into the bottom half of
the chamber.

638
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,360
And now it's a real pain in the
butt to get back out of there,

639
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,200
you know, and, and the challenge
with that level is time.

640
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,240
You got to.
You got to be fast.

641
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,840
Now I got to play the game
again.

642
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,640
I thought.
I thought I played Solomon's Key

643
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,520
for the last time.
I mean it.

644
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,920
I had a little PTSD from playing
just for four hours.

645
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,280
I'm like cuz, cuz you see a
level like man, it just bring

646
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,720
backs nightmares of not being
able to get past that level.

647
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,840
Yeah.
For instance, I'm going to throw

648
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,400
out a random number, let's call
it 22.

649
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,040
You get to 22 and then you spend
all your lives and you got to

650
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,920
spend a good hour getting back
there.

651
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,920
Yeah, it was rough.
But I, I kind of want to go back

652
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,560
and play it again now that you
taught me the trick of casting a

653
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,200
spell on the crystal balls to
get fire ammo, because I feel

654
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,800
like that would have made the
whole game very different.

655
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,360
Different.
Because if I could have that,

656
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,680
you know, I know this isn't the
intended solution, but the

657
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,160
fireball was sort of like the
oopsie mechanic of, oh, I'm

658
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,680
stuck, we'll blast it.
Yeah.

659
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,360
And now my run's not over.
I don't think there's any puzzle

660
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,640
where you need the fireball.
I think there's some levels in

661
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,440
the 40s when you're getting
ready to get towards the end

662
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,960
that having a fireball is is
pretty important.

663
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,920
Yeah, or especially the Super
fireball that travels up and

664
00:33:58,920 --> 00:33:59,800
down.
The walls.

665
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,960
That's that's a cool feeling.
Definitely.

666
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,480
I think the paper and I saw, I
think only used to fire had like

667
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,800
2 fireballs they used on one
level and they're like yeah, we

668
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,239
didn't need to do that, but it
was gonna be a total pain

669
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,840
otherwise.
Yeah, correct.

670
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,719
Yeah.
Definite head scratcher is the

671
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,719
items in this game because I
don't think the items do what

672
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,080
you would ever expect them to do
so the items that are in the

673
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,800
booklet listed as medicine, they
have nothing to do with your

674
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,400
health.
They either give you more points

675
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,360
based on how quickly you beat
the chamber or one of the

676
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,639
medicine.
The medicine of Meltona is the

677
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,120
is the bomb attack.
Essentially when you collect it,

678
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:42,080
every demon head and every one
of the salamander enemies bursts

679
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,000
into flame and it's really cool.
It's like oh, when you're like

680
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,960
oh, that feels great.
This level got so much easier.

681
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,159
But you know, it's like Alex is
telling me he was watching like

682
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,000
a YouTube run and they were
like, oh, the fairies, I guess

683
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,960
they don't do anything and
you're like 10 of them gives you

684
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,240
an extra Dana, you idiot.
Well, when you invited me on

685
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:07,600
this this to talk about
Solomon's key, the 1st video I

686
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,080
pulled up on YouTube was these
two guys playing it.

687
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:12,360
It had a lot of views like
300,000.

688
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,960
So I'm like, oh, let me see what
this just check it out.

689
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,760
And they hadn't a clue what what
was going on in the game.

690
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:22,000
Like 1 was like, like acted like
he knew what he was, he was he

691
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,280
was doing.
But yeah, yeah, you got, you

692
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,320
got, you got it all right there
in the book.

693
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,200
Yeah.
But yeah, like that stuff that's

694
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,680
like, it would be one thing if
they were playing, they didn't

695
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,800
know the hidden stuff.
It's like that's, that's in the

696
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,360
manual that's told.
Yeah, that is told to you is

697
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,760
it's on that level people do
like the did you know you could

698
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,120
control the ducks and duck hawk?
And it's like, yeah, it was in

699
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,600
the manual.
Stop acting like you discovered

700
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,480
a secret.
You just didn't read it.

701
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,560
RTFM.
Am I right, Mike?

702
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,680
This.
I definitely think the monsters

703
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,800
are lacking zool.
But no.

704
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,480
But there is a Dana.
If there is a Dana, then there

705
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,960
is no Zool.
You got it backwards.

706
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,840
I get the joke you're trying to
make and I deeply appreciate it,

707
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,320
but the line is there is no
Dana, only Zul.

708
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,440
So since we have a Dana.
Attacks Dana.

709
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,240
OK, OK, I guess so.
All right, all right.

710
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:16,120
OK.
You know what?

711
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,920
I shouldn't have stamped on that
joke, Mike.

712
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,320
That was a good one.
I'm sorry, is there anything we

713
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,840
explicitly like about Solomon's
key we haven't touched on

714
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,920
already?
I like the bold choice to for

715
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,680
how often we've talked about
religious symbols not being

716
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,000
allowed in Nintendo, it's weird
to me that this didn't mind

717
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,280
doing that.
No, so this does have the Star

718
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,880
of David several different spots
in the in the game, right?

719
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,480
I was kind of surprised, a
little surprised by that.

720
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,000
And then I, I do appreciate the
consolation thing that they're

721
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,040
doing.
Yeah, some of the chambers are

722
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,360
themed to the different with the
horoscope slash constellation,

723
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,000
right?
Yeah, the Zodiac.

724
00:36:58,440 --> 00:36:59,760
Zodiac, thank you.
I knew there was a term.

725
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,840
That's how I continue.
But yeah, that is just kind of

726
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,640
like a nice little grouping of
way of grouping the rooms that I

727
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,800
did appreciate.
Yeah, yeah.

728
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,840
And it kind of themes it like
it's sort of a cosmic sort of

729
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,640
scale sort of thing.
And yeah.

730
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,720
Am I the only idiot who didn't
know that Solomon's key didn't

731
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:18,240
refer to the keys on unlock
doors?

732
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:20,720
But in fact, it's a key, like a
key of terms.

733
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,680
I mean I'm not even sure the
person doing the cover up near

734
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,640
that.
Right, he's holding a freaking

735
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,600
key and they put.
The key, the key in the title.

736
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,400
But yeah, they're I thought the
manual description indicates

737
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,840
what it is.
It does, yeah.

738
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,720
Because I think there's also
like a thing that there's 2

739
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:42,480
hidden pages.
The page of time and the page of

740
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,680
space.
Like there's a whole, there's a

741
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,080
whole thing about like multiple
endings and I'm like man, I am

742
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:53,240
not getting on ending let alone
many endings to consider one a

743
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:55,200
good one.
Well, OK, so this is something I

744
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,320
wanted to bring up.
Alex, do you know about the GDV?

745
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,200
Have you heard of this?
Yeah.

746
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:01,840
They gave you a number at the
end, right?

747
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,880
Yeah.
Is that based on how well you

748
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,640
played?
How efficient?

749
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,320
Apparently no one really knows
the exact math that goes into

750
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,800
this, but it's some combination
of time and the how many items

751
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,720
you have left when you beat the
game, how many times you've

752
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:19,480
died.
But so.

753
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,360
What's wild about it though, is
that I I got the worst ending.

754
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,000
Dana just leaves.
He escapes essentially, and it

755
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,000
says he seals the Devil's
underground.

756
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,200
His second best ending is that
you suck all the demons from the

757
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,480
world back into their
underground chamber and then

758
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,440
seal it.
I think that's the one I saw.

759
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,600
I haven't told this story yet,
but my cousin Mike, I think as

760
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,080
we got a little older and a
little bit better at the game,

761
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,640
he took it home and he beat it.
And I think he called us and

762
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:50,960
he's like, I beat, tell him it's
Keith.

763
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,680
I'm like, yeah, right.
Well, he had a camcorder at the

764
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,720
time.
This must have been early 90s.

765
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,560
He put the camcorder out when he
got to like the last couple

766
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,720
levels and filmed it for us,
mailed us the VHS and he's

767
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:09,760
still, he's searching for it as
we like, like he he thinks he

768
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,640
could find her.
I hope he does.

769
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,760
Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring
it to you.

770
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,160
When he finds it, he says it's
gonna take him some time to go

771
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,680
through all his, you know,
footage.

772
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:24,040
But yeah, I remember.
I remember popping in the VHS

773
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,440
and watching it on TV.
Somebody beat Solomon's key.

774
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,840
Didn't think it was possible.
The very first let's play of

775
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,880
Solomon's key.
I'm so excited, I really hope he

776
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,360
finds it.
Yeah.

777
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,920
Since you bring up the endings,
I do also appreciate and this is

778
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,960
one of the things where it's
like this is the this is the

779
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,840
core of nostalgia.
A thing that reminds me of a

780
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,480
thing I like gets credit out of
with for nothing else other than

781
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,480
that is this whole idea of
someone's let all the demons out

782
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,680
now you have to go capture them
all and I'm as I'm reading I'm

783
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,040
like OK the.
Same ghosts of Scooby-doo.

784
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,680
Yes, this is 13 Ghosts of
scooby-doo.

785
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,680
Like, all I need is some Vincent
Price and we're sold.

786
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,880
And I'm sold on this.
It's not good that I knew the

787
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,400
joke.
You were not even a joke.

788
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,480
I knew the reference you were
going for.

789
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:09,640
Like, I know your body and we're
at that point.

790
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,160
So I didn't finish my point
about GDV though.

791
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,200
So it's this nebulous number
that's meant to represent the

792
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,440
quality of your run at the end
of the game.

793
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,120
I got the worst ending.
I didn't.

794
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,520
I didn't seal all the demons
away, I didn't free the fairies,

795
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,760
and my GDV was 72.
Now, I think a big part of that

796
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,160
is that technically I never died
because I just rewound every

797
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,120
time I die.
Well, almost every time I died.

798
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:37,480
But the YouTube video I watched
that had the best ending had a

799
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,040
GDV of 74.
So I'm like Dang.

800
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,720
I don't think.
Are you sure that's all that

801
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,320
determined the ending?
Cuz I thought the endings also

802
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,400
determined by by the like item
pickups and stuff.

803
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,880
Yeah.
But so, you know, if the in

804
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,360
walkthroughs, it says if you
want the best ending, you have

805
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,280
to go to this corner and get
this, you know, Yeah.

806
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,480
Whatever.
Yeah.

807
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,000
So I don't think it's as based
off that score.

808
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,200
It baffled me cuz I got, I think
the first one I had was like 47

809
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,920
and that was like not making it
out of the first level.

810
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,320
And then I was like, oh, I made
it like another level and it's

811
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,960
like, oh, I'm at the 48 and it's
like, and then it just kind of

812
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,840
stayed around there.
I stopped paying attention at a

813
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,920
point, but for a while I'm like,
I'm getting further and this

814
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,200
score doesn't go up.
I don't know.

815
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,960
I don't know what's up with
this.

816
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,360
I'll I'll tell you, playing this
in the 80s, we didn't care what

817
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,800
your GDV score was.
We didn't give AGD about your.

818
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,920
DVD.
We sure didn't.

819
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,360
And, and can I ask you, how many
times did you have to rewind the

820
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,760
game before you beat it?
Like how many rewinds did you

821
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,440
do?
Well, all of them.

822
00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:42,040
Yeah, all of them.
I mean, because you know, if you

823
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,040
if you try it on the Switch,
it's just two buttons and you

824
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,680
just back up a few seconds.
But like, there's a reason that

825
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,600
Mike streams these games and I
don't because no one would want

826
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,400
to watch me play it.
I rewind like every 1015

827
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,480
seconds.
So I probably, I probably will

828
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,760
rewind it over 1000 times in a
run.

829
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:05,040
Like it's, it's true, it's true
madness, but this game's hard.

830
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,400
So I I listen to hear Mike Tyson
sponge out and that's another

831
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,320
game.
We have so many hours under our

832
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,280
belt as kids.
I think I was Owen 2000 against

833
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,600
Mike Tyson as a kid.
I played it like during college

834
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,360
just randomly and it took me a
couple times and I beat him.

835
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,280
Yeah, he told me.
And it was one of the best

836
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,160
feelings I've ever had.
And last Saturday when I went to

837
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,720
my little brother's house to
play Solomon's key, had had

838
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:34,560
enough of Solomon's key.
After about four hours, I said,

839
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,480
let's fire up Mike Tyson.
Let me see him if I if I could

840
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,240
beat him.
And it took me about 15 tries

841
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:41,920
and I got him again.
But my gosh, I'm going to

842
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,080
challenge you to beat Mike Tyson
without rewinding.

843
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,760
Yeah, OK, OK.
Yeah, you can do it.

844
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,760
I can't do it.
I can't do it.

845
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,360
I'm not good at these old games.
I just talk about them and I get

846
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,680
nothing but grief for it.
And I appreciate the vote of

847
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:58,800
confidence.
I really do.

848
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,880
Well, guys, Speaking of vote of
confidence, I think you're both,

849
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,920
you're both pretty smart.
So I had a quick mini game

850
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,960
minute for us that we're
calling.

851
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,360
Who's that?
Solomon.

852
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,880
We're going to find out which
one of you is the wisest because

853
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:16,240
you know, the premise of this
game is that you are trying to

854
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:19,840
find the grimoire from the wise
King of Solomon.

855
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:25,080
So I have come up with a series
of riddles for you guys to

856
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,280
solve.
They're very simple.

857
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,640
There's only three of them, so
whoever gets the most first is

858
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,680
the wisest of them all.
Blurted out If you know it.

859
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,360
Ready.
Yes, again, it's presented a bit

860
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,680
as being about wisdom and really
is about speed.

861
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,680
Yes, it's thematic, Mike.
OK.

862
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,160
I think I'm being set up here
for some reason, I don't know

863
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,960
why.
Well, I will say I read this to

864
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,280
our pickleball friends Alex, and
they were like oh those are

865
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,960
good.
You got to get you got to.

866
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,520
OK, here we go.
First one, I am wooden.

867
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,800
I am not a door, but I do have
hinges and keys.

868
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,160
What am I?
I have no idea.

869
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,280
I am wooden.
I am not a door, but I do have

870
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,320
hinges and keys.
A piano.

871
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,400
Yeah, Mike gets.
Look at that, Look at that.

872
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,720
The band teacher at our school
got it right away, Alex.

873
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,720
Of course he did.
Of course he didn't.

874
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:13,520
He doesn't even have a wooden
piano.

875
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,160
This is like.
Freaking poser.

876
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,160
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you hear me, Andrew?

877
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:24,120
OK, all right, here we go.
How much does 1/4 of 1/2 of a

878
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,520
whole weigh?
1/4 of 1/2.

879
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,960
Of a hole weighs what, Mike?
Nothing.

880
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,800
Yeah, Holes don't have weight,
Hey.

881
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,680
Oh man this Can I hit the rewind
button in this?

882
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,440
All.
Right, nothing.

883
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,280
Triple triple points for the
last 1.

884
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,480
So this is still a game.
You ready?

885
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,680
What is the longest word in John
Steinbeck's classic title Of

886
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,560
Mice and Men?
No clue.

887
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,720
Your mind is my mind, Mike, what
is the longest word?

888
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,640
Steinbeck.
And John, Oh, you're so close.

889
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,160
What is the longest word in John
Steinbeck's classic title Of

890
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,120
Mice and Men?
Steinbeck was close so.

891
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,440
Yes, in the classic title Of
Mice and Men, what is the

892
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,600
longest word?
Classic.

893
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:15,920
Well, the title is Of Mice and
Men.

894
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,880
Yeah, and I'm presuming it's not
mice.

895
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:21,880
It's mice.
OK.

896
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,240
In the title of Mice and Men,
Mice is the longest word.

897
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:28,240
OK, you know what?
I'm.

898
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:30,680
Giving myself the point for that
one for stumping you guys.

899
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,800
Oh man, it's not dumb.
You are not.

900
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,960
That, that, that was some real
like, what have I got in my

901
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,760
pocket nonsense.
Like that's not actually a

902
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,360
Riddle.
Yes, it is.

903
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,400
It's Florida State written.
Listen, I'm going to post it on

904
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,720
the discord.
Let me know if you see what I'm

905
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,520
going for here, Mike.
You won.

906
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,080
Why you besmirching my riddles?
You won you.

907
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:51,160
Won.
You won.

908
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,240
Here's a Riddle.
Say the word the.

909
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,240
The.
Oh no, you figured it out.

910
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,240
You're such a Dick.
Oh my God.

911
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,080
Listen, Mike, you're be OK.
Listen.

912
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,200
Listen, audience.
I did not besmirch the 1st 2:00.

913
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,880
I I need your help on this one.
OK, go to our discord, we are

914
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,360
going to have it out.
OK, but since Mike's being a

915
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,680
crouchy at me.
Mike, tell me a Joy Khan, what

916
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,080
do you not like about Solomon's
key?

917
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,920
Why don't you just keep the hate
of rolling out of you all?

918
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,160
Right.
I think it is the combination

919
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,800
of, or at least for something
that I went into hoping for

920
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,240
puzzle how much of this feels
like a lot more in the sense of

921
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:37,680
precision and the time feels so
short and some of these like

922
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,960
it's a lot of work to get
through and it's it kind of for

923
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,760
me, it messes with enjoying the
OK, what's the solution?

924
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,040
Because it turns into run and
just hope you don't die.

925
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,760
I don't know that the time was
necessary.

926
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,760
I, I feel like this game would
be just, I mean, I guess for

927
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,960
some puzzles, like if it's just
a challenge of how fast can you

928
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,680
navigate it.
But even then, like Alex said,

929
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,160
once you know the pattern, it's
like muscle memory, you know?

930
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:09,480
Yeah, I, I just got to level 43
and we, we time was never an

931
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,400
issue.
I mean, we were continuing, you

932
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,040
know, when we when we died, but
there wasn't a level where like,

933
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,000
you know, time was an issue just
cuz I remembered how to, I

934
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,520
remembered how to play the level
all these years later.

935
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,000
Does this game need to be one
hit kill?

936
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,600
I feel like there's a world
where you have like you can take

937
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,280
a couple of hits from at least
the monsters I would get if the

938
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,680
fire has to instantly kill you
because if you could just get

939
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,080
damaged and run through it, then
now a lot of the puzzles are

940
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,120
just broken.
But like, I don't know, I just,

941
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,080
I feel like this game is, is
really tough and not in a fun

942
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,160
Ninja Gaiden kind of way.
Yeah, it's tough.

943
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,200
Actually, I think I don't mind
the one hit kill.

944
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,400
I think it shouldn't be a secret
that you can continue.

945
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,440
Yeah, yeah.
Like that, That changes that up

946
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,720
a whole lot.
But here's what it it here's

947
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:03,360
where learning to continue kind
of ruins the game.

948
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:06,880
You just take the fastest way.
You don't go exploring the

949
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,440
level, you know, seeing what you
can get, building your score,

950
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,880
You know, you, you don't explore
anymore.

951
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,240
You just get the key and you you
get in as fast as you can.

952
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,120
I don't know.
I think it gives you the freedom

953
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,920
to explore.
If you're not having to restart

954
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,080
at the beginning, you can be.
It's becomes.

955
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,080
I think I have an idea that'll
work here and not I just need to

956
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,840
scrape by because I'm going to
die.

957
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,040
Well, there's that argument as
well.

958
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,240
Yeah, It is kind of interesting,
though, because making you have,

959
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:36,880
like, these limited lives and,
like, does kind of force you to

960
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,200
make some tough choices because
there were levels where, like

961
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,480
you said, I was like, oh, I got
to the door pretty quickly.

962
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,280
But look at all those areas over
there.

963
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,880
I bet there's a lot of treasure,
probably a lot of fireballs.

964
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,760
Like, I could explore these
depths, but it's a risky.

965
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,040
Yeah.
And so it's, you know, am I

966
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,520
going to just go on to the next
level in the hope that I will

967
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,800
get further than I ever have, or
will I take the chance and sort

968
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,520
of stock up?
That is kind of really good

969
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,400
storytelling through your
gameplay.

970
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,120
Yeah, I hate that you have a
level pulled up right now

971
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,040
because I'm just focusing on
where the pattern is.

972
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,080
I can get rid of it.
No, no, no.

973
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,440
Yeah, I'm just kidding.
I'm just like I'm the backseat

974
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,360
driver, OK?
I think this.

975
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,160
Yeah, yeah.
I thought the final level was

976
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,040
just obnoxious.
Did you guys have watched it?

977
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,040
I've seen it, yeah, on the on
VHSI saw it.

978
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:30,680
So you.
Oh, that's right.

979
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:31,400
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

980
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,680
Back in the day.
But so, like, I mean, first of

981
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,800
all, like Mike said, kudos for
them for like, not changing the

982
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,160
religious imagery.
I think it makes the game more

983
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:40,680
interesting.
But like, what?

984
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:41,920
You know, this is the final
room.

985
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,520
So there's no exit door.
It's just the Key of Solomon.

986
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,280
And I actually gasped.
I was like, like it, There it is

987
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,400
right there in the center.
But it's the, what I think maybe

988
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,840
the only level where there are
no breakable blocks.

989
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,640
And you're like, what do I do?
Yeah.

990
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,560
And so you learn.
OK, Well, I mean, I'm sure

991
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,880
eventually I would have
discovered that.

992
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,680
No, you break the unbreakable
blocks cuz what else are you

993
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:03,840
going to do?
There's nothing else to

994
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,360
experiment with.
You might as well start hitting

995
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,320
your wand against stuff.
Imagine getting here with with

996
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,880
six fireball style.
Yeah, I I see what you're

997
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,720
saying, but the to get into the
actual chamber with Solomon's

998
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:19,040
sacred book, you need to cast
your magic block spell on a

999
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,440
mirror, which you have never had
to do before.

1000
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,040
No, no.
There's no way you would know

1001
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,280
that unless someone told you or
you read a guide.

1002
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,720
Yeah.
Does that do anything on any

1003
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:31,840
other level?
No.

1004
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,200
Well, at least look correct me
if you if in the comments, if

1005
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,080
you know there are level other
levels that have this.

1006
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,600
But I was just like, I can't
imagine how frustrating it would

1007
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,960
be to get that close.
But then also I'm like, well,

1008
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,560
that's also kind of thematically
cool.

1009
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,520
It's almost like biblically
unfair that you can't reach this

1010
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,080
God like knowledge.
You know what I mean, Adam.

1011
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,320
Maybe I'm giving it too much
credit.

1012
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,360
Yeah, I don't know.
So Alex, you're, you're very pro

1013
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,040
on this game.
Is there anything else that

1014
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,400
frustrates you about it?
I think I'm pro just because of

1015
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,240
the memories, you know, from 8
years old to 12 years old.

1016
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:08,840
I think I haven't told, you
know, mentioned this yet, but

1017
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:15,040
how to NES run from 87 to maybe
92?

1018
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,120
When did when did Super Nintendo
come out?

1019
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,080
91?
Yeah, it feels like.

1020
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,640
Early 90s, right, Mike?
Something like that.

1021
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,760
Everybody just started.
It was just Street Fighter,

1022
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,120
Street Fighter, Street Fighter,
right?

1023
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,520
Yeah.
And then my my mom had my little

1024
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:36,600
brother John, my half brother.
And when he he was born in 91.

1025
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:45,760
So come about 9495, my stepdad
went and got and he found an NES

1026
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,200
and a ton of games at a garage
sale and he brought it home to

1027
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,120
my little brother John.
And so I think Solomon's key,

1028
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:53,840
what might have been in that
arsenal.

1029
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,680
And so I replayed all these
retro games a second time with

1030
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,640
my little brother.
It was kind of like how we

1031
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,160
bonded.
And I, I think that's why he

1032
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,840
really enjoyed me coming over
the other day because it brought

1033
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,560
him back to his childhood.
That's awesome.

1034
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,080
So there was kind of two NES
runs for me.

1035
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,680
Yeah, yeah, yours.
And then you you passed it on.

1036
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,160
Yeah, that's so I think that's
what I love about the game is

1037
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,600
the memories.
But like I said, playing the

1038
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:25,320
other day it it brought me PTSD
and just I got mad.

1039
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,920
I got mad and I turned it off
and I'm like, OK, let me punch

1040
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,600
Mike Tyson and see if I can
knock him out.

1041
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:31,360
Right.
And you did it fifteen tries,

1042
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,440
like no big deal.
Like our friend Brian, who was

1043
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,600
on that, you know, he was
rewinding too and still couldn't

1044
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:40,360
take down Mr. Dream.
So I heard that, sorry to change

1045
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:45,320
games, but like, even back then
there were like Mike Tyson,

1046
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,720
there was he he had different
patterns.

1047
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:48,480
He didn't.
He didn't.

1048
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:50,680
Wasn't the same pattern every
time.

1049
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:52,240
Yeah.
I don't know what they call

1050
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:54,040
that.
I think just that, right, Mike?

1051
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,200
You watch a lot of speed runs.
Yeah, I mean, there's a whole

1052
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,360
thing about like what you're to
get the speed run for Mike

1053
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,120
Tyson.
It matters what order you get

1054
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:11,200
because your best performance is
not enough if Mike Tyson delays

1055
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,400
at the wrong spot.
Gotcha, gotcha.

1056
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,280
That is brutal though, because
like the timing on some of these

1057
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,640
speedrunners, it's like almost
Olympic levels of like precision

1058
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,560
and practice and like and so to
then have it be a level of

1059
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,720
randomness on top of that.
So you could be at your A game,

1060
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:29,440
but sorry, the roll of the dice
just didn't work.

1061
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:30,160
That's.
Brutal.

1062
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,320
Yeah, Something saw its most
recent video on Getting the time

1063
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,240
under a certain threshold on
that.

1064
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,600
A huge amount of that is like
the breakdown of these are all

1065
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,400
the possibilities that can
happen at the tail end of that

1066
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,560
fight.
And only these want, you know,

1067
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,040
you only have a certain percent
chance of being of having the

1068
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,240
one that you can actually set
the record with.

1069
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like I don't getting back to

1070
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,360
what you just said.
I watched, I spent 3 hours or

1071
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,920
was it no like an hour and a
half watching somebody beat

1072
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,000
Solomon's key just last week and
they didn't die.

1073
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,200
I just don't I don't know how
that's possible.

1074
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,680
Like they didn't die.
They didn't die.

1075
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,840
The tool assistant speed run, I
don't know, there's some King of

1076
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,080
Kong stuff going on.
There the one that I watched was

1077
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,440
14 minutes to beat the game,
which was insane.

1078
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,000
Yeah, my little brother also
said there's an AI like a played

1079
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,400
played it.
Gross.

1080
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,320
Yeah.
I like that I cheat, but that's

1081
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,400
even that's beyond the pale for
me.

1082
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,440
Because I think this is like my
gauge for how popular a game is,

1083
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,000
is basically how many speed runs
have been done for it.

1084
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,520
And so in this case there was
games done.

1085
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,080
Quick has had it once.
OK, but it still made the stage.

1086
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,440
Yeah, made the stage, but yeah,
it was 14 minutes and they're

1087
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,680
just going through it and
talking about how they're having

1088
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,240
to get to stuff and it's like,
yeah, this is.

1089
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,360
There's no way on some of those
levels like this would take

1090
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,520
forever just to figure out
that's what you have to do.

1091
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,240
It's like this person knows
exactly what they're doing and

1092
00:54:57,240 --> 00:55:00,800
they're still taking most of the
time on some of those levels.

1093
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,400
Yeah.
Biblically unfair.

1094
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:06,200
So I wanted to do a quick
segment before we get to our

1095
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,560
rankings that we call Nintendis
or DAT.

1096
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,200
Because just like our last
episode on Tecmo Bowl, you can

1097
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,920
purchase the arcade version of
Solomon's Key for 799 in the

1098
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,080
Switch eShop.
Alex, did you ever play it in

1099
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,760
the arcades?
You know, I never, I went to a

1100
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,800
lot of arcades in my day.
I never saw this game in an

1101
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,880
arcade I ever went to.
Yeah, it's so it's interesting

1102
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,880
because like Mike, I did, I'm
guessing you didn't either.

1103
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:33,040
I didn't, though I think I read
some stuff about about changes

1104
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,000
between the two.
Well, so booting it up, you

1105
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,560
know, it's like graphically it's
just a lot nicer.

1106
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,440
The enemies, Dana himself, you
know, are just easier to read.

1107
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,880
There's some fun animations like
you and your monsters will make

1108
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,240
expressions now so like when you
block, you know, take a block

1109
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,440
out from under them, they'll get
little cartoony looney tune

1110
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,440
scared eyes as they fall to
their death and you know the

1111
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,360
same kind of chip tune rhythm,
but sounds a little nicer

1112
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,960
backgrounds look real nice.
I think that for me, you know,

1113
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:02,680
cuz I'm a cheating bastard.
Like you can't rewind.

1114
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:05,200
You can't rewind in this version
And yeah, you have unlimited

1115
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,360
quarters so you can get
unlimited retries without having

1116
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:13,240
to do the AB up trick.
But I just, I just don't think

1117
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:17,680
that there's enough of a
difference to justify paying

1118
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,520
anything.
And Alex, did you know that

1119
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,880
actually you and your brother on
the Switch could both play

1120
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,600
Solomon's key and pass the
controller to each other through

1121
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,120
the Internet?
So like right now I can play

1122
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,160
with someone in Chicago and when
I get to a tough level, I hand

1123
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:34,120
them the and they take over.
That's crazy.

1124
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,960
Isn't that fun?
Yeah, I mean, I actually, I went

1125
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:39,520
to my little brothers.
I knew he had the game.

1126
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,240
I knew he had an NES, and I
wanted to just play it how I did

1127
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:44,960
as a kid.
But now that you're mentioning

1128
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,960
all this stuff, maybe I need to
get, you know, I get a Switch

1129
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,040
for myself.
I don't know because I'm a big

1130
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,080
person on hand eye coordination
and till this day I think

1131
00:56:56,080 --> 00:57:00,240
playing NES as a kid help me be
a better baseball player, help

1132
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:03,400
me be a better golfer, having to
have that hand eye coordination.

1133
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,960
So maybe it's time.
I think some of my students

1134
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,920
listen to this podcast.
We don't want them to think that

1135
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:09,680
there's like actually benefits
to playing that many video

1136
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:14,040
games, so.
Surgeons play video games for

1137
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,120
similar reasons for.
Yeah, yeah.

1138
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,400
They probably don't play the
surgeon game though.

1139
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,600
The one trauma center.
Yeah, I wonder if it would, you

1140
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,760
know, you know, I don't have
high blood pressure yet.

1141
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,280
I'm sure it's coming.
But I wonder if it, you know,

1142
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,000
raise that a little bit higher
because, you know, what do they

1143
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,240
call it when somebody throws and
breaks the controller?

1144
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:38,520
Normal.
Yeah, if I'm playing against

1145
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,480
Brian, it's as I knock the
controller out of his hands.

1146
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:41,400
Hey, Brian.
Yeah.

1147
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,200
So Alex, any other thoughts on
Solomon's key before we get to

1148
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,760
our ranking?
No, I just remember once we

1149
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:53,000
learned to continue, once you
get got to a high enough level

1150
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,520
as kids, you can change games
because we just left it on the

1151
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,560
whole time because we didn't
want to go back to square one.

1152
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,000
But so you could, you couldn't
play, you wanted to play a new

1153
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:06,680
game, be like, and then my mom,
you know, if the Nintendo got,

1154
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,440
you know, shut off, you'd be
like.

1155
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:12,480
What did you do?
We're on level 41 already.

1156
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,040
Did you ever do the thing where
like you put a towel over it so

1157
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,600
you hope your dad like doesn't
notice that it's still running

1158
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,560
like?
We never did that, we never did

1159
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,120
that.
We just would just hide it.

1160
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,520
We put it where it wouldn't get
kicked and we just hope it

1161
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,800
stayed on for the next day all.
Right, Mike, ready to wrap this

1162
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,040
up?
Yeah.

1163
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,640
OK, guys, Well, that brings us
to the moment of truth.

1164
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,960
We've covered the joy pros, the
joy cons, and every bit in

1165
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:36,600
between.
So now it's time to declare

1166
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,360
today's game as a Nintendo or a
Nintendo.

1167
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,600
Don't.
Mike, can we start with you?

1168
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,760
Yeah, I.
Think like I said, sorry.

1169
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:51,040
Like I went into this hearing it
in the context of a puzzle game

1170
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:56,600
and was excited for that.
And from that I found what the

1171
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,400
game is on many levels, very
underwhelming.

1172
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,320
OK.
I think ultimately it still ends

1173
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,560
up as a weak Nintendo for me.
OK.

1174
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,200
A limp Nintendo.
And that's because I there's

1175
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,440
enough of it that I did
appreciate, but I hit a point

1176
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,080
relatively quick where this went
from feeling like this was a

1177
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:23,080
puzzle game to feeling that this
was more precision platformer

1178
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,240
game.
And for me, that's where it

1179
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,680
stopped being fun and why I hit
a point where I'm like, OK, you

1180
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,040
know, at this point I'm not
enjoying this and I'm good

1181
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:33,560
ending.
I think you're going to like

1182
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,080
fire and ice, AKA Solomon's key
too, because from just a little

1183
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,720
bit I played, I was like, oh,
this is pure precision.

1184
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,040
There's no standing on the
corners of things.

1185
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,440
It's almost more like chess.
And like, you know, you can move

1186
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,040
this space to this space to this
space, and there's like an order

1187
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,280
to it to in order to get around
your opponent.

1188
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,840
And it's like, imagine chess
having like half moves.

1189
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:55,680
That's kind of what this game
feels like.

1190
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:56,880
And it's like, well, that's
chaos.

1191
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,720
That's not that's not logic,
that's timing.

1192
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,200
That's.
Frame data, you know, and it's

1193
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,400
not really as much your thing.
Yeah, and, and I can think of

1194
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,200
games like PC games that are
close to this, that like I did

1195
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,120
play, but they weren't timed.
It was more just you had to make

1196
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,200
the right moves.
Yeah, right.

1197
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,840
And that's more satisfying
because like, once my brain

1198
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,600
knows what to do, I don't want
to be in this puzzle anymore.

1199
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,400
I was pleasantly surprised by
it.

1200
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,760
I think, like I said, I really
like the mechanic of creating

1201
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,120
and destroying blocks.
I think it wrinkles the brain in

1202
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,840
a really fun way, and it feels
kind of like the ancestral

1203
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,400
forebear to games like Portal.
You know, it's not as good as

1204
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,960
games like that, but I feel like
this is where some of those

1205
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,760
ideas might have originated.
Or, you know, they at least

1206
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,000
share some DNA.
So definitely for me, I don't

1207
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,280
think I would ever play this
unless I could rewind.

1208
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,000
I think it would just be too
frustrating.

1209
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:53,360
But rewinding when I got hit by
an enemy took away the

1210
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,840
frustration of having to do it
over and over again.

1211
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,840
And so I could just enjoy the
puzzle and oh, I know what to do

1212
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,600
now.
I get the timing right.

1213
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,240
That worked.
It removed the thing you don't

1214
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,760
like, Mike.
So I know you don't rewind, but

1215
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,160
you should.
Alex, will you take us home

1216
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:13,920
here, Nintendo?
So the pros, I think playing

1217
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:17,720
with my my brother Steve, my
brother, my cousin Mike, and

1218
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,320
then later on with my little
brother John, just the

1219
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:24,800
camaraderie of like pausing the
game going here's what you got

1220
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,120
to do.
You got to break it down.

1221
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,720
You know, my cousin Mike being
John Madden.

1222
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,800
I think just the memories and
you know, the game had to have

1223
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,960
been good for its time because
we played it so much.

1224
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,680
You know, I could say that we
played Zelda so much.

1225
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,840
We played excite bike a lot.
We played Mike Tyson's Punch

1226
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,080
Out, of course, Mario's, but we
played Solomon's Key as much as

1227
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,120
any other game.
So for me that has to say it's

1228
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,720
it's a great game.
I don't know if it hold, you

1229
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:59,040
know, holds the candle of the
games now, but the cons are

1230
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,720
definitely having to play many
years without knowing you could

1231
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,080
continue.
That's brutal.

1232
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,480
It would have been hard enough,
you know, knowing how to

1233
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,240
continue.
But I will say we, you know,

1234
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,520
when we learn to continue, we
brought the game back out and

1235
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,760
we, we, we, we had a little
second run at it as like 12 year

1236
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,680
olds, 13 year olds.
Yeah.

1237
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,280
I don't know.
Anyway, it's it's I guess it's a

1238
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,280
good game for the 80s.
Probably doesn't hold up to the

1239
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,880
games today.
But for you, it's a Nintendo.

1240
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:30,520
Yes.
For sure.

1241
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:32,200
Yeah.
I love that.

1242
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,840
Well, guys, we're going to call
that game over for today.

1243
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,720
The final score for Solomon's
Key is a unanimous Nintendo.

1244
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:40,920
Alex, this has been years in the
making.

1245
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:42,840
Thank you so much for joining us
tonight.

1246
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,160
And let's get together and play
some games sometime.

1247
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,200
Let's do it.
Absolutely we will.

1248
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,280
Excellent.
And everyone join us next time

1249
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:56,520
and we'll be journeying into a
historic moment for me, crossing

1250
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,120
something off of my gaming
bucket list.

1251
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:04,480
We are covering the infamous
Virtual Boy for the Nintendo

1252
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,080
Switch to I've pre-ordered my
peripheral.

1253
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:11,720
I am so ready to dive into the
red and black world.

1254
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:13,000
Alex, did you ever have a
Virtual Boy?

1255
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:16,400
No.
It's it's gonna burn our eyes

1256
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,920
right off our socket.
Did anyone ever have one?

1257
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,680
No, Nintendo's biggest failure
and we get to experience it.

1258
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,440
How exciting.
What a time to be alive.

1259
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,920
Am I right everyone?
Don't forget to visit

1260
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,760
www.theoldswitcharoo.com.
There you can find links to our

1261
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,480
Spotify, Discord, YouTube,
TikTok and all the social medias

1262
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,560
you can shake a joystick at.
Big thanks to Crystal Fields for

1263
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,480
our incredible intro song.
And please, dear listener, don't

1264
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,840
forget to like and subscribe.
Every click means a lot and you

1265
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,600
mean a lot to us.
So until next time, this has

1266
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,400
been the old switcheroo.
We've been talking gaming retro

1267
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,320
with Mike and Jamo.
I've been Mike.

1268
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,760
And I've been jamo game on
everyone.