S3E09: Super Mario World -or- Eggs-it, Stage Right

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I don't know where my Genesis 
could be. 

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I haven't seen my Super Nintendo
since 2003. 

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That's all right. 
I don't mind. 

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I've got a switch in the old 
switch room. 

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My friend Mike and Jamo too. 
All right everyone, welcome back

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to the old Switcheroo where 
we're talking gaming retro with 

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Mike and Jamo. 
I'm Mike. 

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And I'm Jamo, I'll play along on
our epic quest to research and 

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review all 250 plus games in the
Nintendo Classics catalog. 

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Today we are spinning and 
slipping our way through the 

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classic Super Mario World for 
the SNES in an episode we are 

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calling Exit Stage right now. 
Mike, I'm not gonna lie. 

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I'm proud of this one. 
What do you think? 

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Do you get it? 
It works on multiple levels. 

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Yeah, no, this, this is one of 
your better ones. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
You know what? 

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Don't overthink it. 
Because you have someone with us

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today who can do the 
overthinking for us, don't you? 

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Yeah, I'm very proud to have 
Dempsey from the Overthinking 

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Games podcast, which I've been 
listening to for well over a 

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year. 
So, Dempsey, thank you for being

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here. 
Yeah. 

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Is it because Yoshi is out for 
the pun? 

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Is that what? 
I yes, exit, that's good. 

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Exit stage right is a great. 
Term Yeah, I and yeah. 

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You got to egg it. 
That's OK. 

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Fantastic. 10 out of 10. 
It's been nice having you, 

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Dempsey. 
Good to see. 

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You. 
Yeah, OK, Mike, that was an 

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extraordinarily kind 
introduction. 

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I appreciate that. 
It's crazy that we have people 

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who listen to us talk. 
So my name is Dempsey. 

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I'm one of the Co hosts of a 
podcast. 

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This is where I pitched. 
This is where I wait to see what

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I talk about. 
OK, go for it. 

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Fantastic. 
So and we do. 

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It's called Overthinking games, 
a podcast about what video games

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can teach us. 
And so two of us, not me, but 

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the other ones, Seth and Katie 
are both teachers and we look at

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video games from a vaguely 
sometimes educational 

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perspective and then sometimes 
it's just literal curriculum 

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theory and then sometimes it's 
just video games. 

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So I guess hitting that specific
teacher video game niche and 

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yeah, we're on TikTok. 
You can find us on TikTok at 

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overthinking games comment and 
boost my self esteem. 

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And then if you want to download
and then send us an e-mail if 

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you have literally any opinion 
at all about anything that we 

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say. 
Anyway, yeah, so that's that's 

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the that's the go listen to 
Apple podcast wherever you got 

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this podcast. 
You can find our podcast. 

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I love that concept of the 
teacher gaming from the teacher 

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lens. 
Like I used to use Super Mario 

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64 to teach basic plot 
structure. 

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Level 1 literally has like your,
your, you know, your setting, 

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your establishment, your rising 
action, literal rising action. 

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You know, the music changes for 
the climax of the episode. 

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So yeah, I, I think, you know, 
bringing your kind of take on 

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the educational perspective with
gaming is, is super fun. 

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I listen to your episode about 
inscription. 

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Oh yeah. 
Totally fantastic game on 

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Nintendo Switch. 
I'm bummed Mike hasn't tried it 

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yet 'cause you got to be careful
with what you say about 

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inscription, Dempsey. 
Wouldn't you agree? 

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The less you know about that one
the better. 

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Yeah, yes. 
If you have any enjoyment of 

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like deck builders, I think 
Inscription's a game for you. 

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Yeah, but I so I noticed though,
you know, that that game is, has

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almost nothing in common with 
Super Mario World. 

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So is is is there something 
about a quality of a game that 

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will pull you more than others? 
No, absolutely not. 

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It's very arbitrary. 
I have my taste, I do not try to

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justify. 
I think the brain forms an 

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opinion and then you 
retroactively create a story to 

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justify that opinion. 
And so I am under no illusion 

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that I have any consistency in 
what I like out of a video game 

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at all. 
It's just it either hits or it 

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doesn't and then I will try to 
justify my opinion afterwards. 

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That's true. 
I I, Yeah. 

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Also Inscription is a game that 
I have changed my opinion about.

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I'm not as in love with it as I 
used to be, but that's for 

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that's for another episode. 
Yeah, I'll fight you on that 

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one. 
Well guys, without any further 

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ado, I think we should probably 
get started. 

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Are you all ready to go on a 
crusade against the Koopalings? 

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Yeah. 
Ready, Mike? 

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Yep. 
OK, so let's dive into Super 

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Mario World on the SNES, 
released in 1991. 

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As described on Nintendo 
classics, during a vacation in 

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Dinosaur Land, Princess 
Toadstool gets kidnapped and a 

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spell is cast on the inhabitants
of the island when they stumble 

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upon Yoshi. 
Mario and Luigi learned that 

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Bowser is responsible for the 
terrible misdeeds. 

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Now Yoshi's are trapped in 
magical eggs that Bowser has 

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hidden throughout 7 castles. 
Many hidden paths aid Mario in 

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making his way to Bowser's 
Castle, completing 74 areas and 

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finding all 96 exits. 
Discover items including a 

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feather that gives Mario a Cape 
allowing him to fly, and a 

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flower that lets him shoot 
fireballs in layer upon layer of

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2D scrolling landscape. 
You can even ride Yoshi and 

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swallow your enemies. 
I don't know, I think it covers 

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it. 
That is a weirdly annoying 

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description. 
Other than the improper comma 

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usage, because that drove me 
nuts. 

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Actually, well, so there there's
the improper comma usage later 

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on. 
Yeah, comma splice there's. 

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Also the correct usage early on 
that I misused we we don't 

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normally have tantrics about the
about why the Oxford comma is 

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important. 
But when they stumble upon Yoshi

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comma, Mario and Luigi learn 
really is easy to read as when 

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they stumble upon Yoshi Mario 
and Luigi and then be like, now 

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this doesn't make sense. 
Yeah, OK, sorry. 

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That that that just. 
I don't know how they did the 

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commas so precisely correct 
there and then screwed it up 

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easy at the end. 
Listen, leave a comment, you 

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guys, if you understand what 
happened with the commas in this

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description punctuation, Mike, 
keep it classy. 

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Come on. 
We're going to send an e-mail to

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Mr. Nintendo. 
Yeah, literally unplayable. 

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I blame Bowser. 
There you go. 

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But not Doug Bowser. 
He wasn't in charge of Nintendo 

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yet. 
So let's take a look at the box 

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art, since it was off in 
People's First Impressions North

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America when we got the simple 
image of Yoshi leaping across 

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the front of the packaging with 
a kicked Mario riding on his 

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saddle. 
Dempsey. 

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So you, you you've liked this 
game for a while. 

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Did you keep the box as a kid? 
So, yeah, well, yes, so it was. 

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So this game came out. 
I was already. 

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Well, no, I was. 
This game came out way before I 

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was born. 
So by the time I was, it was 

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like an old game that we had by 
the time I was playing it, but 

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we had the box art and we had 
the, we had the thingy. 

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So I know, so I've, I've 
listened to it and I know I'm 

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going to. 
I'm sorry if it's thrown off 

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your format. 
This is a disclaimer of my 

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relationship to this game. 
It's really hard for me to 

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criticize this game because of 
how much I love it. 

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Like there is no sense of like 
looking at the cons to or like 

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being like, oh, no, this box art
should look like this or it's 

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good. 
No, I love everything about this

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game. 
So deep. 

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So like, yeah, I think this 
captures like the movement and 

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the fun and like the fact look 
at his face and he's riding a 

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dinosaur. 
Like I don't know what else. 

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I don't. 
I don't know. 

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I I love this. 
I love this box art so much. 

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I think it's like it's very 
simple character like, and 

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you're you're going to your 
character is going to move. 

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And that's the thing that you 
know about this game is that 

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it's going to involve a lot of 
movement and a dinosaur. 

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And I think it it's very simple 
and communicates that. 

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And I love the primary colors in
the OR like the really bold, 

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really saturated colors in the 
logo. 

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I think that like, I have so 
much nostalgia for that 

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specific, I mean for this 
specific image, but yeah, I I 

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love how the different letters 
pop up and it feels like it has 

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texture to it. 
So I think you covered 

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everything. 
That's great about it. 

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So I'm curious, because you have
such nostalgia for it, if you 

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will like the Japanese one 
better. 

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Mike, can I show him? 
Before we go to that, I just 

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want to say this. 
I find myself weirdly distracted

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by the fact that like Mario 
White riding, Yoshi seems very 

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excited and like they've got 
speed lines, that he's going 

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fast and everything, and there's
this sense of energy and Yoshi 

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is looking back at Mario very 
chill, and this feels both 

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unsafe and weirdly unsettling to
me. 

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Yes, yes, he's kind of giving 
Mario bedroom eyes. 

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If we're going to be totally 
honest with it, Something's 

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going on there. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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It's like he's, I think, you 
know, I think there's a tension 

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between the two. 
I just I think Yoshi should have

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have eyes on the road. 
Sure. 

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Like this is how you run into 
something. 

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I they're they're gonna be 
jumping, but I mean like, you 

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know, keeping it classy. 
Actually, I do think you're 

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mentioning of like I didn't 
occur to me that with the poses.

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This is going to be a movement 
heavy game. 

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Mario's Cape is behind him. 
Yoshi's leaping. 

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You must get that sense of 
movement. 

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So Japanese one, very similar 
but in. 

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The There's so much more going 
on. 

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A lot more going on Dempsey, 
want to describe what you're 

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seeing for our audio listeners? 
Yeah. 

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So it's like a, it's a sphere. 
It's like the planet Earth. 

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It's like a globe and you have 
different land masses on the 

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globe with different characters 
on them, disproportionately 

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large to how big they would be 
on an actual planet. 

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We got some singing mushrooms, 
which I don't think appear. 

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I don't think there's any 
singing mushrooms. 

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But we have the wizard. 
You have the bullet that's going

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around the planet following the 
curvature of the Earth. 

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You have some dolphins leaping 
out of the sea. 

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You have two different Mario's 
on this box, one that is holding

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a baby dinosaur and one that is 
riding Yoshi. 

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It's going, it's going to the 
left, which is interesting. 

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00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,920
Yeah. 
And I don't know. 

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00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,880
Yeah, it's it's also very 
yellow. 

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Whereas the other one had a blue
background, this one this one 

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has a yellow background. 
Mario's still looking dead 

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ahead. 
Yoshi's still looking back at. 

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Mario, it's the same. 
It's the. 

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Same. 
It's different. 

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Drawings off of you. 
Well, I I think it actually is 

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the same drawing the just the 
proportions are a little 

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squished. 
I am unconvinced by that. 

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00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,040
OK. 
But I, I, I, I think it is 

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interesting, though, that this 
concept of the cover art with, 

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like Dempsey said, it's the 
depiction of a world behind 

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Yoshi and Mario, and everything 
is kind of popping out of it 

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very cartoonishly. 
And it's all following the 

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curvature. 
Like you can see the bullet 

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curving around the world. 
It's actually really reminiscent

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of a game that would come out 16
years later, which would be 

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Assassin's Creed. 
No, I'm kidding. 

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00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,880
It's Mario Galaxy, right? 
Mario Galaxy? 

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00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,120
This is like. 
Would you guys agree? 

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00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,680
This feels like someone looked 
at this and got the idea for 

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00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:01,640
Mario Galaxy. 
Yeah, 100%, absolutely. 

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00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:02,320
Yeah. 
I. 

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00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,880
Also find it an interesting 
choice that on this one Mario 

222
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,320
and Yoshi are going to the left.
Right. 

223
00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:11,040
Yeah. 
And just from like a general 

224
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,200
general thing of like both 
certainly in the games, it is 

225
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,520
always your forward progression 
is to the right. 

226
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,640
Yeah, it's, it's it. 
I'd be interested to know why 

227
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,080
they flipped it. 
I wonder, do you know what? 

228
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,320
Well, how do you read is? 
I don't know how to read 

229
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,800
Japanese. 
Wait, which way do you read 

230
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,080
Japanese? 
I know some language. 

231
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,720
OK, like. 
Oh, there you go. 

232
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,480
So it kind of makes more sense 
that if your brain thinks a 

233
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,560
forward progression is left, 
someone leave a comment if 

234
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:39,520
someone knows, 'cause we're just
making this up as we go. 

235
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,920
So Super Mario World was 
directed by Takashi Tazuka, we 

236
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,320
enjoyed his work in Season 2 
when we covered The Legend of 

237
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,040
Zelda A Link to the Past, and we
will of course see him again 

238
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,960
when we go back to cover Super 
Mario Brothers two and three for

239
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,360
the NES and the SNES and the 
Game Boy Advance, maybe the Wii,

240
00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,840
I don't know, we'll get into it.
But you know, Nintendo likes 

241
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,800
making ports of their old games.
Normally this would be the part 

242
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,240
of the show where I would hit 
you guys with some fun Super 

243
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,680
Mario World trivia, but since 
Dempsey chose such a universally

244
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,120
acclaimed game and so widely 
discussed, I thought instead we 

245
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,920
could play another round of our 
mini game minute, which is Mario

246
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,200
Mythbusters. 
You guys down? 

247
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,600
OK, yeah, let's do this. 
All right, so I'm going to read 

248
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,440
you guys a fun fact about Super 
Mario World, and it's your job 

249
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,840
to decide if it's fake news or 
the Real McCoy. 

250
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,320
Basically just true or false. 
And I'll keep score. 

251
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,680
You guys ready? 
Yeah. 

252
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,720
OK, round Number one, true or 
false? 

253
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,480
Yoshi was originally intended to
be included in the NES Mario 

254
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,720
games, but developers were not 
able to get the riding mechanic 

255
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,840
to work on the 8 bit hardware. 
True or false, Dempsey will go 

256
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,560
with you first. 
I've seen that in at least one 

257
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:49,480
YouTube video, so I'm gonna say 
true. 

258
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,840
I believe everything I say on 
YouTube. 

259
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,480
OK, Mike, agree. 
I was going to go false but as 

260
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,360
soon as he's like well I am 
aware of this. 

261
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,360
I feel like I made the wrong 
choice, but I'll stick with it. 

262
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,400
All right, so that is one point 
for Dempsey. 

263
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:07,600
It is in fact true Yoshi. 
According to the fan site Supper

264
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,760
Mario Broth. 
In a 1990 interview, famed Mario

265
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,880
producer Shigiro Miyamoto said 
he originally had a vision of 

266
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,480
Mario riding a horse or an 
ostrich like creature. 

267
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,200
He even had this sketch of Mario
riding on dinosaur taped to his 

268
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,640
desk for over 5 years before his
vision was finally realized in 

269
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,880
Super Mario World. 
So I I thought that. 

270
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,360
Was pretty cool. 
I was going to say that. 

271
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,480
Did that, did that. 
Drawing looks very joust. 

272
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,920
Yeah, there you go. 
Mike always goes back to joust 

273
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,840
with you, doesn't it? 
Everything should. 

274
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,760
Yeah, this drawing actually, 
this is interesting because you 

275
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,480
can kind of see how Mario's 8 
bit, but Yoshi is more 

276
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,400
conceptual and doesn't see how 
Mario's more square. 

277
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,560
I do see how he would fit on the
and on the grid, but Yoshi 

278
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,240
himself is still being worked 
out and like what the feel would

279
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,960
be before they. 
That's interesting. 

280
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,200
That's like a a process of 
iteration. 

281
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,880
That's cool. 
But it's neat though, 'cause 

282
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:01,840
you're right, I, I never thought
about that before, but you could

283
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,240
almost see Shigeto Miyamoto 
thinking forward and being like,

284
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,200
OK, the game's, you know, it's, 
it's fascinating to see that 

285
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,760
difference. 
OK, question #2 true or false? 

286
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,440
Mario is punching the back of 
Yoshi's head to get him to shoot

287
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,200
out his tongue and slurp up 
enemies. 

288
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,480
So Dempsey will go first since 
you're in the lead. 

289
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,640
Oh, I think so. 
He either hits him. 

290
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,840
He definitely hits. 
I think he hits his head. 

291
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,120
Yeah, I'm gonna. 
Say, is that true? 

292
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,160
OK, Mike. 
How do I feel like we've had 

293
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,080
this discussion before and 
therefore I should know how that

294
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,320
played out? 
I'm gonna go false. 

295
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,920
One point for Mike, although the
original intent was according to

296
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,000
a 2017 IGN article, was to have 
Mario hitting him in the back of

297
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,680
the head. 
Director Tazuka stated that the 

298
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,920
sound effect of Mario striking 
Yoshi's head was replaced with 

299
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,680
something resembling the word 
eco or go in Japanese. 

300
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,920
They were basically worried that
players would get upset seeing 

301
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,960
Yoshi hit in the back of the 
head over and over again, so 

302
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,680
they changed the punch sound 
effect to him saying go and so 

303
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,560
he is officially. 
And it's actually interesting. 

304
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,600
If you look at the Sprite work, 
there's the slight nub that 

305
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,640
implies he is pointing. 
OK, got you. 

306
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,200
They thought about it and, you 
know, Speaking of animal rights 

307
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,280
sensitivities, according to 
thegamer.com, this is also why 

308
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:25,200
the North American release had a
difference of the dolphin level.

309
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,680
There is a level in this game 
where you can hop on the backs 

310
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,960
of dolphins. 
You're kind of like a salmon 

311
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,360
running upstream sort of vibe. 
And in Japan, Yoshi could eat 

312
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,760
the dolphins. 
But since the, you know, 

313
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000
protecting the dolphins was a 
big thing in the 90s, they 

314
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,080
decided to remove that 
functionality in the North 

315
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,080
American release. 
Cowards. 

316
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,160
Who'd win in a fight, Yoshi or 
Echo? 

317
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,440
I think it depends if they're in
the water or not. 

318
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,880
Well, canonically Yoshi can eat 
Echo. 

319
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,800
I think we just learned this. 
Yeah, but canonically though, 

320
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,160
Yoshi or Echo can break things 
with sound waves. 

321
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,200
Like that's really powerful. 
This. 

322
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,280
Is. 
Going to be we're going to 

323
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,480
settle on the Discord, all 
right? 

324
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,520
Yeah. 
Sorry, I was going to make 

325
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:07,360
another joke. 
Go keep going. 

326
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,040
I'm going to. 
No, I was just going to say what

327
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,880
power? 
What power would he get? 

328
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,880
Would he get set like, 'cause 
you know, he eats things and he 

329
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,800
gets powers and things like. 
That that's not a joke. 

330
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,400
That is a fascinating question. 
Time travel. 

331
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,280
I think it would. 
Oh, there you go. 

332
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,640
There you go. 
Yeah, we're going to get another

333
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,320
viral echo, the dolphin clip, 
Mike, that's going to become our

334
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,240
brand. 
OK, let's next question for 

335
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,000
Super Mario World. 
True or false? 

336
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,200
Super Mario World was the best 
selling stand alone SAES game of

337
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,520
all time. 
True or false? 

338
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,840
Yeah, I'm going to say true just
because I I want it to be true. 

339
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,640
OK, Mike, He's really chewing on
it. 

340
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,240
I. 
Because, like, it was Tetris for

341
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,160
the Game Boy, I think. 
Stop. 

342
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,120
Stop talking to Dempsey. 
You're helping him. 

343
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:53,480
Not what the Game Boy party is 
on. 

344
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:59,640
I am like true or false I. 
Think I'm going to go false 

345
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,040
because I'm wondering about 
Mario Kart. 

346
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,720
So it is false, but that's not 
why Super Mario World was the 

347
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,839
best selling SNES game according
to Gizmodo but it was not the 

348
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,319
best selling stand alone game 
because it was packaged with the

349
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,520
system. 
The best selling stand alone 

350
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,920
Super Nintendo game was Street 
Fighter 2 Turbo it. 

351
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,640
Was a pack in OK it? 
Was a pack in. 

352
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:25,880
Got you on that one. 
All right, so that puts Mike at 

353
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,640
2 and Dempsey at 1:00. 
We got two more here, and then 

354
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,280
we got a tiebreaker. 
If you want it true or false, 

355
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,880
All of the main stages feature 
remixes of the same musical 

356
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,440
track. 
True or false. 

357
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,880
Mike, you're in the lead, so 
you'll go first. 

358
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,160
Repeat that question. 
Question says true or false. 

359
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,800
All of the main stages in Super 
Mario World feature remixes of 

360
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,000
the same musical track. 
So is it the same song for 

361
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,880
pretty much all the main stages 
and they just modified it or am 

362
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,400
I? 
Trying to fool you, what's a 

363
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,720
mainstage mean? 
So not counting title screen, 

364
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,320
overworld credits and Bowser 
fights. 

365
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:03,120
OK, then I think I'm gonna say 
false. 

366
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,880
OK. 
Then I think, yeah, I think it's

367
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,200
false. 
It's actually true, so no points

368
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,960
for either side here. 
As cited by thegamer.com, the 

369
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,000
game's level one song ground BGM
is either speed up, slowed down,

370
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,240
or modified in various ways over
and over and over again. 

371
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,960
With the exception of being, 
like I said, title screen, 

372
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,240
overworld credits, and Bowser 
fights, the same chord 

373
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,680
progression is used in pretty 
much every level of the game. 

374
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,400
Huh. 
I'm gonna listen for that. 

375
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,960
That's interesting. 
As I didn't believe it at 1st 

376
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,800
and I so I wandered around the 
overworld map hopping into like 

377
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,440
Nope, that's the same theme. 
That's the same thing. 

378
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,240
It's crazy that they modify it 
so much you kind of don't 

379
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,840
notice. 
Even the castle. 

380
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,680
The castle, that's the Bowser 
stages. 

381
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,000
So I guess I said that wrong. 
Anyway, I'm not a perfect man, 

382
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,400
Mike. 
I'm close #5 true or false? 

383
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,880
When localizing the game for 
North America, the Koopalings 

384
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,480
were all named after various 
celebrities. 

385
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,920
So Mike still in the lead, so he
will still go first. 

386
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,520
True. 
Okay, Dempsey. 

387
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,720
I'm going to do false because I 
want to win. 

388
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,400
This is just a strategic play, 
not out of out of knowledge. 

389
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,640
Well you know what Dempsey, it 
fragging worked. 

390
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,640
Overthinking games my ass. 
I think you're thinking the 

391
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,640
perfect amount here. 
It is false. 

392
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,960
Although a common misconception,
this is only true for most of 

393
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,280
the mini bosses. 
We have the koopalings named 

394
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,720
after Ludwig von Beethoven, Roy 
Orbison, Wendy O Williams, Iggy 

395
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:30,360
Pop, Morton Downey junior and 
Len lemmy kill Mr. But according

396
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:33,400
to a 2015 interview with 
Nintendo localizer Davy brooks, 

397
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:40,120
Larry just looked like a Larry. 
Other fun pop culture references

398
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:44,080
include the fire breathing 
Triceratops being named Reznor 

399
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,040
after Trent Reznor from 9 Inch 
Nails. 

400
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,760
Wait, wait that. 
Wait, wait. 

401
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:48,960
Seriously. 
Yep. 

402
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,840
OK, I made I I I may have made a
joke about that while playing 

403
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,480
that, but I did not know that 
that was. 

404
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,680
Sure was. 
It was a tribute to the 9 Inch 

405
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,480
Nails, a musician. 
And Mike, I know you're gonna 

406
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,320
freaking love this. 
Do you recall the name of the 

407
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,960
bullet enemies in this game? 
Are they just bullet bill? 

408
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,280
Yeah, Bill. 
OK, Do you know what they named 

409
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,640
the aquatic version? 
You're gonna love this. 

410
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,960
I can't remember. 
Torpedo Ted. 

411
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,200
So it's Bill and Ted. 
Why not click that? 

412
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,360
Isn't that great? 
Yeah, I thought it was most 

413
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,680
excellent. 
OK, well, so tiebreaker. 

414
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:32,080
OK, first one to blurt it out 
and if neither of you know I 

415
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,960
will start spelling it one 
letter at a time. 

416
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,440
OK, so. 
Everyone have a ever got good 

417
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,160
memory or pen and pencil ready? 
Yeah, it's. 

418
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:39,280
Good. 
All right. 

419
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,400
The sound effect of Yoshi 
hatching is a reused asset from 

420
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,360
what? 
Satanic themed NES game? 

421
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,880
Satanic themed. 
OK. 

422
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,400
Starts with AD. 
Doom. 

423
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,400
Demon Soul. 
EDEDEV. 

424
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,280
Devil May Cry 5. 
Devil W, Devil WO. 

425
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,120
Devil world devil. 
World. 

426
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:06,320
Devil World. 
OK, there we go. 

427
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,960
I I do not know what devil world
is. 

428
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,200
It is a game where the Yoshi 
sound effect came from, but 

429
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,800
actually the main main 
protagonist of the game, 

430
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,640
Tamagon. 
I'm showing you a picture of the

431
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,640
box art. 
It looks like an early version 

432
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,200
of Yoshi. 
That is Yoshi canonically being 

433
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,040
Christian. 
That is a. 

434
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,720
That is a cross. 
That is a Christian cross. 

435
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,240
There we go. 
Yeah, We're going to get some 

436
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,720
clicks now, Mike. 
That's wild. 

437
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,040
Congratulations, Dempsey, you're
the winner of Mario Mythbusters.

438
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,560
So before we get into the joy 
pros and joy cons of Super Mario

439
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,520
World, what is our history with 
this game and how far do we each

440
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:42,680
get? 
Dempsey, can we start with you? 

441
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:50,720
Yeah, so I OK, so I want to talk
about how I relate to retro 

442
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,560
games in general. 
So I have, I have no love or 

443
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,640
nostalgia for retro games. 
I did not really seriously start

444
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,080
playing video games until I was 
an adult. 

445
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,240
Like actually thinking about 
video games as an art form. 

446
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,720
I had a GameCube. 
I have a lot of nostalgia for 

447
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,640
the game Fire Emblem and Double 
Dash because those are what I 

448
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:16,200
have on my GameCube. 
And then the Xbox 360 movie tie 

449
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:21,800
in game to open season and so 
but. 

450
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,520
It drops out like it's a normal 
thing Oh yeah you know I'm a 

451
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,040
super fan of the Xbox gate high 
end game to open season yes 

452
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,480
Dempsey keep going that was an. 
Amazing third game. 

453
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,560
So. 
But like so we like my but like 

454
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,080
at my I don't even think I think
I stole it from my cousin. 

455
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,280
I think I stole my cousin's 
Ness. 

456
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,000
And so I had this is the first 
game I remember I have conscious

457
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,000
memories playing and and it I so
I, I would have it would, I 

458
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,080
would have been maybe in the two
really early, like 2000 or 2001 

459
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,400
or something like that. 
So this would have this game 

460
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,400
would have been old by then. 
So it's like, and but this is 

461
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,960
the first game I have conscious 
memories playing and I like when

462
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,760
I so first of all, this is Mario
to me. 

463
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,720
Like when I think of Mario 
prototypical Mario, this is I 

464
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,840
don't go to the 3D Mario or like
the older Mario. 

465
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,680
This is like what Mario is for 
me. 

466
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,200
Canonically. 
This is like my prototypical 

467
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:30,040
Mario and I'd I like I think 
that if this game came out this 

468
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,480
year, I think it would be like 
one of the best games ever made.

469
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,520
Still, I love everything about 
this game. 

470
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,840
I love the colors. 
I love the feeling of movement. 

471
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,760
I love how playful it is. 
It's very toy like like a 

472
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,240
Nintendo. 
People talk about Nintendo 

473
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,160
making toys like they're like 
electronic toys, and this game 

474
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,120
feels like such a good version 
of toys. 

475
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,920
Also, I think if I I think this 
game would have blown my mind 

476
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,720
had I been there when it came 
out, because the progression of 

477
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:04,880
visuals from Mario Bros, Super 
Mario Bros one and two, and then

478
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,680
this is like Tella. 
Like it feels like it feels so 

479
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,320
much more rich. 
I don't know. 

480
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,920
And so I, yeah, I just, I've 
played it several times. 

481
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,480
I probably finished it like I 
definitely played to the credit 

482
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,320
like to to finish it probably 
like 3 or 4 times. 

483
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,040
OK so unit 10 did, should I hit 
3 or 4? 

484
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,480
No, I'll just do it once. 
Unit 10 did beat this game 

485
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,960
before. 
How many? 

486
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,640
Computer yeah I've I've beat 
this game before and then I've 

487
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:41,360
done like a full play through 
probably twice and then so this 

488
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:46,040
time I this time I made it to 
just past the forest. 

489
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,560
I love the green in the forest I
love how Richard feels. 

490
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,440
If this feels like what I 
imagine stepping into a video 

491
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,600
game, I would want to feel like 
as a kid, like it's so it's so 

492
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:04,080
playful and imaginative and the 
logic is so non sequiturs, like 

493
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,680
these little bombs that fall 
from parachutes and the 

494
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,520
centipedes that get angry at you
when they like every. 

495
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,160
There's so many. 
And the secrets too, Like the 

496
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,120
idea where like like because I 
think with video games, there's 

497
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:18,320
this desire for them to be 
infinite. 

498
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,520
And and this kind of gives you 
the illusion that there's always

499
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,160
more of this game to discover, 
especially when you're playing 

500
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,960
it for the first time or you 
come back to it after a long 

501
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,120
time. 
You don't remember the details. 

502
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,760
So you fell in love with it like
post 3D era? 

503
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,000
Like when you said you had 
played. 

504
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,120
This 100%. 
Wow, that's and I think that's a

505
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:39,440
good testament to like how well 
it's aged. 

506
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,320
And I totally agree with you. 
Like if this game came out 

507
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,720
today, it's so solid and so toy 
like. 

508
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,080
Like you said, you can almost 
reach out and pick up any little

509
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,920
object you're looking at and 
imagine it like a bobble. 

510
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:56,200
And so and I think, and I think 
Nintendo like when I see, I've 

511
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,440
never been to like the actual 
Nintendo theme parks or 

512
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,720
whatever, but I think they 
really pull from this game 

513
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,000
specifically for a lot of their 
iconography. 

514
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,200
A. 100%. 
And so like, as far as Mario 

515
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,840
iconography goes, this game is 
still really informing the 

516
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,040
vocabulary of how we continue. 
And I think like Super Mario, 

517
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,800
the Wonder, Super Mario Bros 
Wonder or whatever, like I think

518
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,520
the best thing that that game 
could have done was kind of 

519
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,840
recapture the excellence and joy
that people felt playing this 

520
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,040
game. 
Like I think I think this game 

521
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,880
sets the standard for fun 
playful platformers. 

522
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,480
Like I said. 
Yeah, anyways, but I love this 

523
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,120
game so much. 
I like, I have such I Yeah, I 

524
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,880
just, I'm a big fan. 
Super Mario World's great. 

525
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,120
Now, Mike, have you had not 
played it before this episode or

526
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,560
had you? 
I had. 

527
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:55,400
Clearly played this slightly and
I say slightly in that when I 

528
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,440
began like the first island you 
start on, I did and I didn't 

529
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:07,080
know why but I knew a part of me
knew to head to the left and up 

530
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,000
which is the first of the to get
to the yellow. 

531
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:12,720
Switch. 
Switch Palace. 

532
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,720
Switch Palace. 
There we go. 

533
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,880
Got the word switch. 
That's embarrassing on this 

534
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,640
podcast. 
So I got to that and it was 

535
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,200
like, OK, my some part of my 
brain knows that's a thing I 

536
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,520
need to do. 
And then I continued onward and 

537
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,760
I got to maybe part way through 
the Second World, at which point

538
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,560
it was getting tough and I 
decided to go check out the 

539
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:46,720
soup, the What's this, Super 
Mario World, Super Mario Advance

540
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,880
2. 
Isn't that a yes? 

541
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,520
He's referring to the Game Boy 
port, which we're gonna we're 

542
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,600
gonna compare the virtues of 
that to this late in the 

543
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,360
episode. 
But so Mike, you you switched 

544
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:56,880
versions. 
How'd it go on that version? 

545
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,760
And and I will also add with 
this because that numbering that

546
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,080
naming is very confusing to me. 
Is. 

547
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,720
I was sufficiently unfamiliar 
with this game that it wasn't 

548
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,640
until doing this that I realized
this is like I did not know this

549
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,560
is meant to be like a sequel to 
Super Mario Brothers 3 at all. 

550
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,240
Oh yeah, it's like a direct 
sequel. 

551
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,960
Yeah, it apparently is. 
The man. 

552
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,280
Like the manual treats it as 
that. 

553
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,920
And I'm like, I always thought 
this was a separate franchise. 

554
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,280
In the same way that, like, 
Mario Kart is not a sequel to 

555
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:28,800
Mario Brothers, it's its own 
thing. 

556
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,680
I have always thought this was 
its own thing. 

557
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,040
I'm surprised. 
Yeah, because it's called a 

558
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,560
different thing. 
So like, I kind of feel like 

559
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,120
really this, this isn't on me, 
this is on them. 

560
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,120
There's some weird naming things
happening. 

561
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,480
Which made Super Mario World 
Super Mario Advance 2 utterly 

562
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,600
baffling to me initially. 
As a title. 

563
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,760
Yeah, as a title, because I'm 
like, how is how is the first of

564
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,600
a thing the 2nd of this other 
thing? 

565
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,400
It is Simon Fancy, the 4th of a 
thing and the second of a thing.

566
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,280
But how'd you do on the Game Boy
version? 

567
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,040
Yeah. 
On the Game Boy Advance version,

568
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,240
I did a fair bit better, 
partially because there's a 

569
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,880
little bit of difference in how 
how they handle we'll get to I 

570
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,120
So I ended up getting to a point
where I was on Chocolate Island 

571
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:23,040
two OK and I played an hour 
trying to beat Chocolate Island 

572
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,320
2 and could never beat that 
level. 

573
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,840
Oh, devastating. 
It turns out that Chocolate 

574
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,760
Island 2 is a level where 
depending on how many coins you 

575
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,520
have when you reach the first 
pipe means you get a different 

576
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,640
second like section to the 
level. 

577
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,760
Didn't know that. 
Yeah, and it turns out that I 

578
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,640
was getting very good at taking 
a route to get to that next 

579
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,120
level and the next level, the 
next section was really hard. 

580
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,760
Yeah. 
It turns out that if I had Don 

581
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,080
Slower made a point to get every
coin, I ended up on a much 

582
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,800
easier 1 and I only found this 
out looking it up much later and

583
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,640
then went back and was able to 
beat that level in like 2 tries 

584
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,160
which was incredibly 
frustrating. 

585
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,200
That's so funny. 
That level was going to be a 

586
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,520
very big deal breaker. 
Now, thankfully, because I was 

587
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:24,000
streaming this after an hour of 
that chat pointed out to me that

588
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,760
like, because I'm like, I think 
this is going to be the last 

589
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,520
level I see because I just I 
can't get past this because it's

590
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,080
I'm having to do all this 
platforming on angles and it's 

591
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,520
excruciating. 
And Chad's like, well, you know,

592
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,600
there's another option, right? 
And I'm like, no, I don't know, 

593
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,400
there's another option. 
Do go on. 

594
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,440
And then I was introduced to the
Star Rd. 

595
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,520
Oh yes, Star Rd. 
And was told that like if you go

596
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,360
to this level and to two one, I 
think you're somewhere in world 

597
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,480
2. 
Like this is the head for this. 

598
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,280
You can get to the Star Rd. 
I got to the Star Rd. 

599
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,760
I worked my way around, I got to
Bowser's Castle, and then I 

600
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,160
spent 2 1/2 hours trying to beat
Bowser's Castle, which was an 

601
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,840
improvement on an hour into 
Chocolate Island 2. 

602
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,880
And finally, I'm like, I this is
late. 

603
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,040
I intended to play for two hours
and I was approaching 6 hours. 

604
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,920
I'm like I am calling this at 
six hours. 

605
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,160
Yeah. 
At five hours and 56 minutes 

606
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,400
into that stream, I finally 
freaking beat Bowser. 

607
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,720
So you nintended beat this game?
Yes. 

608
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,360
How many computer? 
It was a long, long run. 

609
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,440
If it was not for actually Dez, 
who's in the discord, like 

610
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,400
getting me onto the Star Star 
Road to begin with, that would 

611
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:49,400
not have happened. 
Wow. 

612
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,000
So I'm super pleased to have 
actually managed to get to that.

613
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,680
Yeah, it's there's some really 
challenging parts and I love 

614
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,320
that chat was there for you in a
little community here, getting 

615
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:02,760
your back. 
That's what it's all about. 

616
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,320
So I first played this game at 
Circuit City when I was a wee 

617
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:08,160
lad. 
Right, Mike? 

618
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,280
Remember Circuit City? 
I don't know if Dempsey probably

619
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,680
doesn't. 
Might have learned about it in 

620
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,480
history. 
Yeah, exactly. 

621
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,760
So Mike knows this. 
My family, we were a Sega 

622
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,120
household, right? 
And as much as I believe Sonic 

623
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,320
is still the superior franchise,
the giant bonsai bills, the 

624
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,760
giant bullet enemies in level 1 
of this game made me so jealous 

625
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,680
as a kid because you're Sega 
kid, you can't play this game. 

626
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,480
But they seemed impossibly large
to me. 

627
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,760
Like that seems so intimidating 
that it's like, I don't know, 

628
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,840
like a third of the screen 
perhaps. 

629
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,600
And and then you can kill them 
by just hopping on them. 

630
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,800
That felt so cartoonish and so 
playful and so fun, right? 

631
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,960
I like Dempsey said, felt toy 
like to me and so I never got 

632
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,200
around to actually playing this 
game until prepping for this 

633
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,520
episode. 
But I am proud to tell all of 

634
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,080
you and John Ford Discord that 
without using any rewinding or 

635
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,680
safe states, I Nintend did beat 
the Game Boy Advance port of 

636
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,840
this game. 
How many computer? 

637
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,360
And then I nintended beat it a 
second time on the SNES version,

638
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,640
also using the star Rd. 
Mike I. 

639
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,560
I won't play the sound effect 
again though, because we're each

640
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,480
getting 1 today. 
Well, I'm proud of us guys. 

641
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,040
We've all beaten Super Mario 
World. 

642
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,080
That's not totally easy. 
So Dempsey, you kind of touched 

643
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,760
on a little bit already, but can
you kind of kick us off other 

644
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,520
discussion of the joy pros of 
this game other than it's like 

645
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,360
toy, like nature and you know, 
the the kind of world aspect of 

646
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,040
it? 
What makes this so good? 

647
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,600
So I think one of the things 
that for me really impacted me 

648
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,800
is the the challenge of it. 
This is this is a hard game in 

649
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,600
some parts. 
And for me, there is something 

650
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,080
so fun about just throwing 
myself against the wall until 

651
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,200
I'm brain dead, until like I 
feel like my hands mold to the 

652
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,520
controller and the character is 
an extension of my will. 

653
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,840
And I and I and I did not get 
that plane this time because I 

654
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,960
did use the rewind feature, 
which makes made it really fun 

655
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,480
because it felt like a tour. 
It felt like the rewound feature

656
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,120
gave me the tools to kind of 
like breeze through these 

657
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,239
places. 
I already have memories of still

658
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,280
feeling the feeling the game, 
feeling the control, but not 

659
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,719
necessarily committing myself to
the time commitment I like. 

660
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,239
But yeah, I think for me, that's
one of the things that I love 

661
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,360
about it, about this game 
specifically is I think I I 

662
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:37,600
think the balance of challenge 
lends itself to almost, almost 

663
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,400
like a meditative state of OK, 
if I die, I'm not going to care 

664
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,719
in in such a, in such a playful 
way. 

665
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,600
Also. 
So go going back to like how I 

666
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,440
think the desire for video games
to feel infinite, like you check

667
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,679
every pipe when you go through 
the first time in this game, 

668
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,240
because there's like the 
opportunity that, that you 

669
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:04,080
might, that something might be 
there and, and you're rewarded 

670
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,000
for that enough to where you 
continue the effort of 

671
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:12,040
exploration consistently. 
And I think like not skipping 

672
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,200
like, like when you get your 
Cape, for example, I would go 

673
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,600
back to levels and fly up to see
if there's anything up there 

674
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,760
that that I, I would not have 
access to without the Cape and 

675
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,320
things like that. 
And so I, I, I also think the, 

676
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,680
the exploration and how it feeds
exploration is really fun. 

677
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,160
And like, if like the star Rd. 
is a really good example of like

678
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,120
more exploration. 
Like if someone went into this, 

679
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,600
I don't know, I feel like if 
someone went into this not 

680
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,320
knowing that Star World was a 
thing, that would be like a 

681
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:48,120
genuine surprise that there's 
like this whole alternate way to

682
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,240
navigate the game, the, and like
the special levels and things 

683
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:54,960
like that. 
I feel like that really adds to 

684
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,080
to feeling like you're, you're 
plumbing the depths of this 

685
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,720
world. 100% agree. 
Yeah. 

686
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,480
Yeah. 
I love that you brought up the 

687
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,440
challenge of it, because when I 
started playing the game for 

688
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,160
this episode, there was a good 
45 minutes to an hour of my 

689
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,520
first run through where I was 
kind of just, I don't know, this

690
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,760
is fine, but this is Chigoro 
Miyamoto's favorite Mario game. 

691
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,000
This, some people say, is the 
pinnacle, and I couldn't figure 

692
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,600
out why I wasn't clicking with 
the game. 

693
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,440
And then I asked a question that
honestly, I should ask more 

694
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,320
often, which is, what if I'm the
problem? 

695
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:32,280
What if rewinding is ruining the
fun of this? 

696
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,400
And it totally was, because as 
you said, the challenge is 

697
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,360
perfect to the point that I am 
always making a little bit of 

698
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,000
progress. 
Every obstacle feels 

699
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,200
surmountable, and then there's 
all these little tricks you can 

700
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,720
discover to get around it. 
So once I stopped cheating I 

701
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:52,600
realize this is like an all 
timer. 

702
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,520
This game is so good because 
that pitch perfect difficulty is

703
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:03,000
a very difficult thing to do in 
one level, let alone 96 levels. 

704
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,600
Like it's, it's so well tuned. 
Yeah, and I think it it builds 

705
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,200
and Nintendo is famous for doing
this, but this is very 

706
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,480
emblematic of the Nintendo 
approach. 

707
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:18,160
But if, if builds the mechanical
vocabulary so seamlessly to 

708
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,520
where it's constantly 
tutorializing you to how it's 

709
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,240
going to approach things in the 
future, whether that's like, you

710
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:27,680
know, getting so many flying 
enemies on the screen where it 

711
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,400
feels insurmountable. 
But because you've had access to

712
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:35,480
them prior, you could, you know,
if it feels like a like if you 

713
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,920
were to drop in like the middle 
of the game or whatever, it 

714
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,960
would be horrendous. 
But because of the gradual I, I 

715
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,320
feel like it does a really good 
job of scaffolding your 

716
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,440
experience to give you context 
into what to expect later. 

717
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,440
That's like a good Lesson plan, 
right? 

718
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,720
Like you got a scaffold, you got
to give kids contact. 

719
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:53,640
Look at you over thinking games.
I see you. 

720
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:57,840
I see what you're doing there. 
I think at this point it's worth

721
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,560
managing for one one thing in 
terms of the pros, why I like 

722
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,240
the Game Boy Advance version 
more. 

723
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,680
That's that point of OK, you 
keep having as the difficulty 

724
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,760
hits you keep you're kind of the
accepting of like I'm going to 

725
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,200
die, but I'm keep getting a bit 
further with what I'm trying to 

726
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,200
get through. 
And one thing that was different

727
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,600
between the two, and it's why I 
stuck with it for the Game Boy 

728
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:26,800
Advanced version was in the 
original game, you say are able 

729
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:32,960
to save it after like castles 
and like the ghost houses on the

730
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,680
Game Boy Advanced version, you 
can save after any level. 

731
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:44,400
And so instead of having the 
thing that I don't have various 

732
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,960
games depending on sort of how 
they checkpoint things is there 

733
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,680
are have been a chunk games we 
play where it's like, OK, 

734
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,480
there's a hard bit, but it takes
me so much effort to get back to

735
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,320
the hard bit and then I don't 
learn any. 

736
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,200
You know, if I die quickly, I 
didn't have time to learn 

737
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,600
anything, which is particularly 
true in this, where, you know, 

738
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,320
one hit and Mario's dead. 
So there's this thing where I'm 

739
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,080
not spending my time learning 
the thing, I'm spending my time 

740
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,000
getting back to it. 
Yeah, I. 

741
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,160
Felt, yeah, I'm saying I felt 
that with the Super Nintendo 

742
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,480
version a bit more, and the 
Super Mario World really let me 

743
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,120
focus on the things that I was 
having difficulty with. 

744
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,880
Well, so you know, that's 
because the Game Boy Advance was

745
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,480
AA battery powered. 
And so, you know, Mommy, my Game

746
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,640
Boy is dying. 
Do you have any batteries? 

747
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,800
No, you got to let a kid save 
because if they lose a lot of 

748
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,320
progress because of a dead AA 
battery, they're going to not 

749
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,720
want to keep playing. 
But Mike, I'm going to jump in 

750
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:41,480
there and I guess let's just do 
it. 

751
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,000
Let's just do our Nintendis or 
that because you know, we were 

752
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,040
going to compare this to the 
Game Boy Advance version. 

753
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,200
And I totally agree with 
Dempsey. 

754
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,680
Dempsey said before we started 
recording that the Game Boy 

755
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,360
advanced washed out color 
palette of a bummer because it's

756
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,640
so sharp on the Super Nintendo. 
I did find it being softer on 

757
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,040
the eyes. 
I kind of liked it. 

758
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,880
Like I don't know if I liked it 
more, but I didn't hate it. 

759
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,680
But but Mike, it's I so I 
officially tested this and I 

760
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,800
have a video I'll put in the 
YouTube version just to show 

761
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,080
that I'm right. 
It's not just that you can say 

762
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,440
between every level. 
If you game over, you restart at

763
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,760
the mid level checkpoint you 
reached. 

764
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:23,040
That's huge. 
So suddenly, I don't know, 

765
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,480
Dempsey, have you played 
Celeste? 

766
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,520
That's one of my favorite games.
For me, yes. 

767
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,680
I love that game so much. 
What's wonderful about Celeste 

768
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,040
is that it's this crazy 
platforming challenge, but when 

769
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,840
you fail, you're just taken back
to the start of that jump. 

770
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,920
And so you you try again and 
again and again. 

771
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,720
And like Dempsey said, there's 
something satisfying about 

772
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:43,360
throwing your face up against 
the challenge and then the 

773
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,720
catharsis of when you finally 
get it. 

774
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:47,560
So on the Game Boy Advance, it 
felt more like Celeste, where I 

775
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,200
wasn't even having to play the 
beginnings of levels after a 

776
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,480
game over. 
Not, not, not. 

777
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,160
I was dead. 
A game over to hit continue, 

778
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,680
went back to the level, and I'm 
already 50% of the way through 

779
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,400
it. 
I'm not putting this game down. 

780
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:02,200
I am going to beat this whole 
freaking game. 

781
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,920
And I intended so. 
Yeah. 

782
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,400
And also just so many little 
layers of secrets. 

783
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,520
Mike, did you discover any of 
that organically while playing 

784
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,360
any of the Yoshi Secrets or Star
War Star Rd. 

785
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,320
Was there anything you found 
without the help of chat? 

786
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,680
I think some some stuff I don't 
have, I don't have particulars. 

787
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,920
Like I and I definitely ended up
at like exits that were not the 

788
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,040
right exits at various not not 
the exits that I needed. 

789
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,360
Like, you know, you found a 
different exit. 

790
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:29,880
Go ahead, go see what happens 
here. 

791
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,360
Yeah, I think like I didn't 
really interact with the Yoshi 

792
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,440
stuff until the star Rd. things 
and that was a little bit the 

793
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,120
manual mentions that like you 
can feed the baby Yoshi's to get

794
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,480
them to be a full Yoshi. 
And so like some of that stuff, 

795
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,080
like I knew what was going on a 
bit. 

796
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,400
I feel like the closest thing I 
had to to a figuring something 

797
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,480
out wasn't directly gameplay. 
It was the realization that also

798
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,160
I think the Gameboy Advance 
allows is you can pause the game

799
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,640
on a level you've already beaten
and just go back to the map, 

800
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,240
which is super useful if you're 
like, I need a power up or I'm 

801
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:12,760
going to die on this level. 
Now I can pause and go back and 

802
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:18,000
then come back in. 
Sure, and they added the status 

803
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,120
screen. 
If you hit select on any 

804
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,520
overworld map level, it'll tell 
you exactly how many dinosaur 

805
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,440
coins you've found, how many 
exits you've found. 

806
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,880
It gives you basically a 
checklist to 100% of the game. 

807
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,640
So Dempsey, you've played this 
game multiple times. 

808
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,080
How do you kind of do your run? 
Do you use Star Road and, you 

809
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,560
know, skip major parts of the 
game or do you try to play it 

810
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,720
proper? 
I just vibe it out. 

811
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,240
I have no, there's only one time
I did it systematically and I 

812
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:49,120
followed a guide to make sure I 
got every single exit and things

813
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,200
like that because I didn't want 
to experience all of it, so I 

814
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,280
did. 
I did follow a guide once, but 

815
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,320
now I just kind of, yeah. 
Now when I go, when I hop back 

816
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,000
into it, I just kind of vibe it 
out. 

817
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,200
I'll remember like specific 
things and I'll, you know, and 

818
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,000
I'll go, OK, this pipe, I like, 
remember this pipe and things 

819
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,600
like that. 
But I'm not like I, I'm not like

820
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,000
speed running it or like trying 
to accomplish anything. 

821
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:18,800
So the the need for a 
systemization is is less so for 

822
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,880
me. 
I do remember that I think the 

823
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,800
the second and third Switch 
palaces were something that 

824
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,960
actually the game made a comment
about, hey, what? 

825
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,320
Hey, have you seen those? 
I'm like, I should go figure out

826
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,400
where those are now. 
And what's really neat about the

827
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,560
switch palaces, that's what 
Mike's referring to, like at 3 

828
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,520
different points in the overall 
maps, you can find these things 

829
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,680
that will for create new for 
well, there's yellow, blue-green

830
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:46,560
and red. 
Yeah. 

831
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,760
Okay, SO4 switch the colors of 
the Mario world, the title 

832
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,800
screen, there you go, everything
all figured out. 

833
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,080
But anyway, so they will make 
new platforms appear so you can 

834
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,040
access different pathways 
through the levels, including 

835
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,600
getting to special world, which 
is a hidden world within a 

836
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,720
hidden world. 
If you make it to the end of 

837
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,800
star road and have hit all the 
switch palaces, you can access 

838
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,280
these like Kaizo level 
challenging levels called 

839
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,520
special, each one named after a 
different retro synonym for the 

840
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,920
word special, which includes 
gnarly, tubular, way, cool, 

841
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,080
awesome, groovy, mondo, 
outrageous and funky. 

842
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,600
But I loved these because a 
totally optional, but they're as

843
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,320
like a bragging rights thing. 
So Dempsey, so how say you kind 

844
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,080
of vibe the game out, but like, 
do you consider yourself good at

845
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,520
it because you were pretty 
competitive in the versus mode 

846
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,280
we tried. 
No, I don't think I'm good at 

847
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,640
this game at all. 
It takes me forever. 

848
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,640
It takes No, I I don't think I'm
very good at this game. 

849
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,480
I'm not going to platformers. 
I'm just persistent at 

850
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,520
platformers. 
I I do like doing the special 

851
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,640
challenges. 
I might get through like the 

852
00:44:54,640 --> 00:45:00,080
first two and be like, OK, this 
is this is a lot and then go 

853
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:06,360
back to the rest of the game. 
Yeah, I, I part of the switches 

854
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,400
that I think are really fun is 
that they are also difficulty 

855
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,400
mechanisms to control the level 
of difficulty. 

856
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,600
Because not only do they do 
switching them give you access 

857
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,280
to different things, but they 
also just fill in the gaps on, 

858
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,200
on some particularly hard 
places. 

859
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,920
And so if you are having a lot 
of trouble, it, it kind of helps

860
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:35,680
to be to explore a little more 
and find them and, and, and so 

861
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,760
that's that, that's another 
thing that I think is, is 

862
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,040
really, I don't know elegance 
about the way the game let's the

863
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,320
player gets a kind of, I, I 
usually don't hit the switches, 

864
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,320
I guess at least like the first 
time, like you can hit the 

865
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:50,920
switches earlier. 
But then if I want to go 

866
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,400
somewhere that needs to 
switches, I'll go back to that 

867
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,800
switches. 
But I think there's something 

868
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,560
about the original challenge 
that's really satisfying. 

869
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,360
But no, I, I I I think the 
switches are a really elegant 

870
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,960
solution for both difficulty and
also wonder and surprise through

871
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:05,560
exploration. 
I. 

872
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Think it was actually 
interesting to realize when I 

873
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,600
got to Bowser's Castle that in 
the weird with one of the parts 

874
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,480
of Bowser's Castle I'm like, I 
think the switches are making 

875
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,160
this easier now. 
Yeah. 

876
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,840
Yeah, and it was a cool 
realization, like what's going 

877
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,160
on? 
There's like, oh, because if 

878
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,440
those blocks weren't there, I 
think it's basically like the 

879
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,000
Bowser statues that that shoot 
fire and it's they're up on. 

880
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:30,240
There's two of them that are up 
on, Yep, those blocks. 

881
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,480
I'm like, oh, because I've done 
that. 

882
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,000
This is a much easier thing to 
get through now. 

883
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,280
Yeah, and that's a neat feeling.
Like I think it's so clever that

884
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,240
this kind of feels like a world 
because there's all these little

885
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,360
touches and ways you can 
influence it and little back 

886
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,120
alleys to explore. 
And it's just one of the more 

887
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,240
expansive 2D platforming games. 
And it's neat that I didn't 

888
00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:55,520
discover really much of this at 
all on my first run through. 

889
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,920
It was on my second run through 
that I started delving in, and I

890
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,720
think that's the perfect way to 
approach game Secrets is like 

891
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:04,320
really fulfilling if you want to
pursue them, but if you don't, 

892
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,360
it holds up fine on its own too.
Can we talk a little bit about 

893
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,320
the kind of characters? 
Because like, I mean, Yoshi, 

894
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,120
Mike mentioned it briefly, but 
there's a lot of depth to the 

895
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,800
Yoshi character. 
Depending on the Koopa that 

896
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,920
Yoshi swallows, they can spit 
fire or it can sprout wings and 

897
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,600
fly. 
And then Mike said you can find 

898
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,760
hidden levels with baby Yoshi's,
and if you feed them enough 

899
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,440
enemies, they'll grow into, you 
know, adult Yoshi's. 

900
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:31,960
Did you? 
Did Mike? 

901
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,920
Did you find any of the 
alternate colors? 

902
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,120
You can get different color 
Yoshi's throughout the game. 

903
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:39,640
Yeah, cuz you see those on the 
when only when I did the star 

904
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,920
Rd. stuff did I see them. 
Yeah. 

905
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,920
Which one of them's a total jerk
and turns out if if it hates a 

906
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,640
star that you're trying to get, 
it immediately becomes Yoshi. 

907
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,960
Wait, the baby becomes Yoshi 
immediately from a star? 

908
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,200
Yep, and that is so clever. 
And you don't get the star. 

909
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,240
Yeah, but you get a full Yoshi. 
I didn't want a full Yoshi. 

910
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,800
In fact, I I wanted a star and 
to be holding a Yoshi because 

911
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,880
when you're holding something 
you swim much faster. 

912
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,560
Yeah, yeah. 
It's like a little, almost a 

913
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,280
little handheld jet ski. 
So I got the enemies on the 

914
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,880
screen here. 
I I grabbed it from the credit 

915
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,000
sequence, which names all of 
them and shells all of them. 

916
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,680
Dempsey, are there any enemies 
that you like, really love, or 

917
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,680
really hate? 
I think the I I like the 

918
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,960
dinosaurs just because they feel
like the most toys to me. 

919
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,080
The Rex, I guess I I really like
those designs. 

920
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,920
Also that lot. 
Blarg. 

921
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,720
Blarg looks like he does not 
belong. 

922
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,560
Blarg looks like he's surprised 
that he's there. 

923
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,680
I think, yeah, Blarg is. 
So every time I play Blarg, I'm 

924
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,160
like, this feels like a mistake.
I don't know. 

925
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,800
He's a very he's a very funny 
character design. 

926
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:48,720
What what Dempsey's referring to
is that there is an enemy in the

927
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:51,680
lava levels that you cannot hurt
and it can't get out of the 

928
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,000
it's, it's like a shark 
essentially. 

929
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,040
It's swimming around in the lava
and it'll kind of lunge at you. 

930
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:59,600
But the art style, like, like he
said, this is when they figured 

931
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,960
out the Mario aesthetic. 
But he does not belong in the 

932
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,080
Mario aesthetic. 
No, he looks so out of place. 

933
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,600
Yeah, it's almost something out 
of like early Dream works or 

934
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:09,760
something. 
It's really wacky. 

935
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,960
Mike, do you have any strong 
feelings about the enemies? 

936
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,880
I hate the Dino torches. 
Oh, the little fire breathing 

937
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,080
guys. 
And that's partially because 

938
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:23,440
they're one of the enemies that 
can go up walls and stuff and 

939
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,280
move around fairly erratically, 
and also because they that is 

940
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:33,920
the first part of the level that
I played repeatedly for an hour 

941
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,680
and couldn't beat. 
So like, I got very fed up with 

942
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,400
them. 
I also don't like RIP Van Fish. 

943
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,880
The sleepy fish. 
If they stayed sleepy I'd be OK 

944
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,480
with it. 
It's when they stop being sleepy

945
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:46,960
I have a problem. 
Yeah. 

946
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:54,480
I do have a question here, which
is I'm wondering how many of the

947
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,600
of I think a handful of these 
are all ones that I recognize 

948
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,720
from stuff like Mario Party, and
I'm wondering if this was if 

949
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:02,640
they'd been in previous things 
or if this was their first 

950
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,640
appearance. 
Like I'm looking at both. 

951
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,880
I think Wiggler and Monty Mole 
and Pokey were all ones there. 

952
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,360
Like these are all familiar from
like Mario Party things. 

953
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,720
To me, I know that some of these
were Mario 3 editions, so I'll 

954
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:20,440
be honest, I'm not sure. 
But like this, this feels like 

955
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,760
the fully realized version of 
these characters. 

956
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,680
I think the one that I kind of 
have a lot of memories about is 

957
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,600
the charge and chucks the 
football players because the 

958
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,160
game is really good about 
putting them in like kind of 

959
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,040
stressful or silly situations. 
So like there's points where 

960
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,360
he's like literally the 
goalkeeper and he's right there 

961
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,360
before the end of the level 
jumping to block you because 

962
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,040
you're essentially the football,
right? 

963
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,040
That's just, that's just nice 
theming. 

964
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,200
And there's even a hilarious 
moment where you find one 

965
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,400
underwater and he can't swim. 
So he's just ineffectually 

966
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,680
drowning forever. 
And I'm like, I'll charge. 

967
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:51,960
And Chuck, how'd you get down 
here? 

968
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:58,080
I've always had a fantasy of. 
OK, tell me, Dempsey, what's 

969
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,880
going on here? 
Of Charge and Chuck and Mario 

970
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,040
Kart. 
I think he would be such a fun. 

971
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,720
I I think he would be It's so I 
don't know. 

972
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,200
I have some weird affection for 
charging Chuck. 

973
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,360
I think I want to see charging 
Chuck more places that. 

974
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,600
'D be dope. 
He's such a funny character. 

975
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,040
Yeah, sorry. 
That just clicked now is also a 

976
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,720
Mario party 1 is where the 
charging chucks run across and 

977
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:23,480
you have to OK, I I this is I 
want to make this clear to 

978
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:24,680
Dempsey. 
We don't normally have this much

979
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,880
punctuation talk on our shows, 
but. 

980
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,880
The Mike's just feeling a little
frisky tonight. 

981
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,960
I. 
Find it weird that Boo buddies 

982
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,320
Boo is in quote quotes. 
The big Boo Boo is in quotes. 

983
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,360
The fishing Boo is not. 
OK, yeah, that's right. 

984
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,200
Yep, the one. 
Here we go. 

985
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,400
We cracked the code. 
Well, what's the code? 

986
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:51,560
It's over thinking games. 
This is right on, right on 

987
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,360
brand. 
Yeah, that's hilarious. 

988
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,520
Yeah, that's very funny. 
How about the boss fights? 

989
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,760
I love the boss fights in this 
game. 

990
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,000
I think they're really clever. 
You know, you got the 

991
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,040
Koopalings. 
I don't really F with the 

992
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,760
Koopalings. 
Like they're fine. 

993
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,520
They're more than just like a 
puzzle, just a couple of hits. 

994
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,720
But this game has some big boss 
fights. 

995
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:15,720
There's Reznor, where it's the 
fire breathing triceratops on a 

996
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:19,760
like Ferris wheel and you have 
to hit kill them by doing the 

997
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,040
Air Mario arcade mechanic of 
running underneath their 

998
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,880
platform, jumping up, hitting it
from below, they fly off. 

999
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,680
But what's genius about this is 
that once you've destroyed two 

1000
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,520
of the Triceratops, the floor of
the level burns up, and now you 

1001
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,000
have to jump on the Ferris wheel
in order to not die. 

1002
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,000
So now it's a great way of 
adding tension. 

1003
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,200
And like Dempsey said, you know,
it teaches you the mechanics of 

1004
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,800
the boss fight, and then it adds
a layer of complexity. 

1005
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,680
Yeah, to make it feel really 
satisfying when you pull it off.

1006
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,200
And and then, like, I think the 
Bowser fight too, right? 

1007
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,360
It's you're using the techniques
that you've learned. 

1008
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,040
You're kicking stuff up into the
air until Bowser flies 

1009
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,600
underneath it, but then you're 
also having to manage like the 

1010
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,880
Mecca Koopalings and Peach is 
throwing you power ups whenever 

1011
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,600
can she can get a moment. 
So it's like it felt very good 

1012
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,160
story building and it felt like 
good boss mechanics. 

1013
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,480
Did you guys like the bosses? 
Yeah, I think, I think all the 

1014
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,240
bosses are, they're not 
confusing, which is my least 

1015
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,320
favorite thing in a boss. 
They're all very clear that they

1016
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,160
teach you almost instantaneously
what you have to do. 

1017
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,560
And so even the first time going
in, the learning is very smooth,

1018
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,040
I found. 
And yeah, I think they're, 

1019
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,520
they're very fun and, and 
playful. 

1020
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,080
I have a lot of nostalgia for 
the Bowser boss fight. 

1021
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,440
I think it's, I think it's a 
classic. 

1022
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,880
Like when I think of like iconic
video game boss fights, that's 

1023
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,720
one that comes to mind for me. 
And it's it's neat the mechanics

1024
00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:50,000
of the of the fight because 
Bowser is flying above you and 

1025
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,440
so he has his propeller. 
So you can't jump into his 

1026
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,640
propeller. 
So you need to jump, but not, 

1027
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,640
you can't jump high if you jump 
low, you know, And it's like 

1028
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,600
this whole game you've been, 
you've been honing your jumping 

1029
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,320
abilities. 
Let's really put it to the test 

1030
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,360
by giving you this narrow window
of safety to jump over the 

1031
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,720
enemies he's spawning, but not 
get hit by a propeller from 

1032
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:09,840
above. 
I thought it was neat. 

1033
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:11,600
Mike, any thoughts on the 
bosses? 

1034
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:17,040
I. 
Found what counted as a hit or 

1035
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,560
not, particularly in the Bowser 
fight, to be a frustrating 

1036
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,000
experience. 
Yeah. 

1037
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,400
Cuz a lot of things are, I'm 
like, I don't know. 

1038
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:29,560
Or just more broadly, I feel 
like somehow when I needed to 

1039
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:34,200
interact with something, it was 
not very generous, but if I 

1040
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:39,760
wanted something not to interact
with me, it was a lot more 

1041
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,400
liberal on what counted as a 
hit. 

1042
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,880
The worst thing I did get killed
holding a key trying to reach a 

1043
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,600
lock because it counted me as 
having collided with the thing 

1044
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,800
on the other side of the lock. 
And I'm like. 

1045
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,000
Oh, OK. 
How did I die from the thing 

1046
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,440
further away than the thing I 
need to reach to leave this 

1047
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,120
level? 
Right, it broke, wrinkled the 

1048
00:54:59,120 --> 00:54:59,920
brain. 
Yeah. 

1049
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:03,400
And so like dealing with like 
the mecha koopas and trying to 

1050
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,600
get them hit and just having 
his, I'm like, I don't know why 

1051
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,520
that wasn't a hit. 
I am at least slightly glad that

1052
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,160
I, I had one bit of strategy on 
that boss fight that when I 

1053
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,440
eventually came up with it, I 
was very pleased with, which was

1054
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,000
cuz he'll throw down to Mecca 
Koopas and the next time it 

1055
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,600
comes around, he will sort of 
top it back up to 2. 

1056
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:29,120
And so I would use one and then 
deliberately wait until he would

1057
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:30,800
throw down a second one. 
Right. 

1058
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,360
So that when I would move on to 
phase two, I already had a Mecca

1059
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,880
Cooper to hit him with. 
Smart. 

1060
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,640
Yeah. 
It's like a little resource 

1061
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,720
management puzzle that you kind 
of figured out there that's. 

1062
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,400
Fun. 
I had that one bit going going 

1063
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:47,800
for me and it slightly worked to
like relatively early on I made 

1064
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,640
it to. 
I was one hit away from beating 

1065
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,240
from beating them and then I 
spent the next like 2 hours 

1066
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:56,920
trying to do it again. 
Well, I mean, and so if I can 

1067
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,760
just talk about the Big Boo 
fight because this is an 

1068
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,920
optional boss, but it's really 
neat because it's kind of a 

1069
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,400
similar mechanic. 
You are grabbing blocks and 

1070
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,720
kicking them up into Big Boo 
while you're having to avoid 2 

1071
00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:10,000
little boos and you know, kind 
of keep your eye on them or off 

1072
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,200
them or forget what the mechanic
is. 

1073
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,120
But since you're grabbing block 
from the floor, you can 

1074
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,040
accidentally dig yourself into 
like a little Gray wave or just 

1075
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,760
fall into a bottomless pit below
you. 

1076
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,880
It never really happened because
it's not that hard to aim. 

1077
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:26,080
But I love the idea of I'm using
the platform I'm on as my 

1078
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,680
weapon. 
So I better I I better choose my

1079
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:29,840
moment carefully. 
It's neat. 

1080
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,920
It's it's like that's just 
that's chef kiss game design. 

1081
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,760
It's so pure, It's so good. 
And after each boss, you get 

1082
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,000
like a funny cutscene. 
They destroy the castle in 

1083
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,160
increasingly comical ways. 
You guys remember this? 

1084
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,160
Yeah. 
Yeah, so like, yo, Yoshi will or

1085
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,520
sorry, Luigi or Mario will like 
blow up the castle or punt it 

1086
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,040
away like a football or my 
favorite, they like erase it 

1087
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,720
with like a window rusher brush.
Sure, which kind of implies 

1088
00:56:54,720 --> 00:57:01,240
they're sort of godly in a way. 
So, you know, joy cons, right? 

1089
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:02,960
Dempsey would want to leave the 
zoom or something because you 

1090
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,080
said there's nothing you can 
criticize about this game. 

1091
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:06,760
Is there? 
Nothing you don't like about it?

1092
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,200
Literally, it's perfect to you. 
So here. 

1093
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,960
So this is, I'm going to get 
annoying. 

1094
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,960
So this is sometimes an 
experience, an artistic 

1095
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,800
experience transcends my ability
to criticize it well, where it 

1096
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,640
feels like criticizing it is 
like criticizing a friend. 

1097
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,560
Like, like there's something 
about the experience as a whole 

1098
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,240
where it's a lot easier for me 
to talk about how it makes me 

1099
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:38,400
feel than it is to analyze like 
any kind of objective opinion on

1100
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,120
it. 
And like, so like there, there's

1101
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,320
a couple games like outer Wilds 
is a game like that where I find

1102
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:46,720
it impossible to think 
critically about that game in a,

1103
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,640
in a, in a like a criticism way.
And this is one of those games 

1104
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,520
where like I understand that 
like the difficulty thing. 

1105
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,920
So like even going back to the 
difficulty, I think you're 

1106
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,360
right. 
I think saving, I think there is

1107
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:04,920
a lot of value in being able to 
save at the, at the, at each 

1108
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,160
stage to where you don't have to
go all the way back to the last 

1109
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,080
castle or the last haunted house
or whatever. 

1110
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,920
I play and since I was a little 
kid, I've, I've played this like

1111
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,680
I play Demon Souls where you go 
farm a bunch and then you, and 

1112
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:22,000
then you tried it, you go farm a
bunch of lives and then you 

1113
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,800
tried it. 
And then it's like you, I get up

1114
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,360
to like 80 lives or whatever. 
And then I, and I think that's, 

1115
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,120
I think I have been able to 
romanticize that process in my 

1116
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,280
head, but like, I, I don't think
that necessarily makes it a good

1117
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,280
solution to a game. 
But like my emotional experience

1118
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,680
has a lot of attachment to, to 
the process of getting low on 

1119
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,280
lives, going back to the 
beginning, farming lives. 

1120
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,400
And then, and that's part of the
rhythm in which I play the game,

1121
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,000
but that doesn't mean it's, it's
a good experience. 

1122
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,400
So in that way. 
And that's, I think that's what 

1123
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,520
I mean when I say this is a 
really difficult game for me to 

1124
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:59,120
look at critically because I 
think I've gotten used to a lot 

1125
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,960
of the flaws to where those are 
a part of the romantic 

1126
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,480
experience for me of playing 
this game. 

1127
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,880
That's fair. 
I says games are really special 

1128
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,040
and especially nostalgic in 
different ways. 

1129
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,200
And so, you know, it's like with
a game that's good, it's like, 

1130
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:13,640
are you going to criticize 
childhood? 

1131
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,880
You know, like, it's almost 
like, right? 

1132
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,720
Yeah, it's I'm, I'm very excited
to hear you guys talk because 

1133
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:20,800
you guys don't have that 
nostalgia for it. 

1134
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:25,240
And so and so I mean, you guys 
are playing this like as if it 

1135
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,480
like maybe like it's as if like 
it's a 2D platform or like a 

1136
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,400
really well reviewed indie game 
or whatever. 

1137
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,280
Like kind of that that level of 
like it's not pushing technology

1138
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,880
forwards anymore. 
It doesn't have this like ground

1139
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,520
breaking art style necessarily. 
That would have been like insane

1140
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,000
to see for the first time. 
It's like the way you guys are 

1141
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,680
are looking at it. 
I think I'm very fascinated to 

1142
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,440
hear you guys talk about it, 
actually. 

1143
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,720
Thank you, I I would hope so. 
That's the whole premise of this

1144
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,840
anyway. 
Mike, any joy cons for you on 

1145
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,320
Super Mario World? 
I think aside from some of the 

1146
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:02,680
bits already covered, I think I 
don't like how it handles power 

1147
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:08,200
ups really OK. 
And what I mean by that is I 

1148
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,160
think they're often very 
critical. 

1149
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:15,080
However, they are often not 
present within the levels where 

1150
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,800
one needs them. 
Yeah, and it's you gotta go 

1151
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,080
farm. 
Yeah. 

1152
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:20,840
Yeah. 
And it kind of turns into this 

1153
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,360
thing where it's like I am on 
like, like we're like 7. 

1154
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,480
And like the spot that I know I 
can get this is world 2. 

1155
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:33,800
This is not efficient. 
And I kind of feel like it's a 

1156
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,840
situation where if there was 
something in there that was even

1157
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,920
just like, OK, I go back to the 
start of this world. 

1158
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,520
There's an easy ish way to do 
this. 

1159
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:44,840
Sure. 
Just so that I'm not having to 

1160
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,160
do this massive trap, you know, 
this massive go all the way 

1161
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,800
across, across world map to the 
spot that I know works. 

1162
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,760
Yeah, and that problem gets, I 
would say, multiplied when 

1163
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,600
you're looking for secrets 
intentionally and things like 

1164
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,240
that, because a lot of times 
reaching the secrets will 

1165
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,280
require elements that you cannot
find, sometimes even on the 

1166
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,400
island. 
But all that's very rare. 

1167
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,600
But yeah, the definitely not in 
that level. 

1168
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,240
So yeah, I I completely agree 
with you. 

1169
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,040
Yeah. 
And then I think kind of, and I 

1170
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,120
think Yoshi falls into that same
category, especially because I 

1171
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,520
don't know why it is, I feel 
like Yoshi, right. 

1172
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,600
I mean, I feel like there's 
something sinister about the 

1173
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:26,600
Mario Yoshi relationship in this
on the basis that Yoshi, when 

1174
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,160
you get hit and you are no 
longer on Yoshi, Yoshi outruns 

1175
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:35,600
you, moves way faster in in the 
attempt to get away. 

1176
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,200
And I'm like that feel this 
feels like Yoshi's making an 

1177
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,080
escape where even death is 
preferable because Yoshi will 

1178
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,120
run right off the edge. 
And when you have levels where 

1179
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,560
it's like, OK, this is a Yoshi 
platforming level, but I can't 

1180
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,400
get Yoshi here. 
I have to go get Yoshi, come 

1181
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,600
back, get hit once Yoshi runs 
off the platform that is 3 

1182
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,520
Yoshai wide, Sure. 
And then I have to do this 

1183
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,120
again. 
And I'm like Yoshai, the plural 

1184
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,280
of Yoshi. 
Yeah, and it's just like this. 

1185
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,080
It is very frustrating. 
Like why can't even if just if I

1186
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,560
got hit and Yoshi just went into
into idling mode like when you 

1187
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:16,320
jump off Yoshi. 
Sure. 

1188
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,920
Or didn't drop off, you know, 
didn't run off edges. 

1189
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,040
Sure. 
I OK, so I do think there is 

1190
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:29,960
something really fantastic about
the frantic nature of like 

1191
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,960
specifically on the Aleutian 
Island, this happens a lot or 

1192
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,360
not the Aleutian Island, but in 
the Illusion forest, because 

1193
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,600
there's levels with a whole 
bunch of enemies that you have 

1194
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,560
to navigate and you'll get hit 
by Yoshi and there's just a 

1195
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,760
bunch of things on screen and 
you're looking for this fucking 

1196
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,000
dinosaur. 
Sorry. 

1197
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:51,640
Anyways, but but yeah, I think, 
I think I no, I think you're 

1198
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,640
right. 
I think, I think the, the fact 

1199
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,160
that Yoshi can outrun you and 
it's very tedious. 

1200
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:04,120
I, I do think it, it can add 
some freneticism that I think 

1201
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:09,040
really helps the chaotic feel. 
I think good or bad, it does 

1202
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,800
make the entire experience a lot
more chaotic. 

1203
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,720
It it definitely worked on areas
that had long, you know, when it

1204
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,360
wasn't narrow platforms. 
I. 

1205
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,360
Fully agree with you. 
Like that was the part where 

1206
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,920
it's like if I'm hit you 
actually will run off the edge 

1207
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,560
immediately. 
Sure. 

1208
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,360
Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense. 
So let me give some JMO lure to 

1209
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,160
our listeners here. 
JMO lure to our listeners here. 

1210
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,720
That's a tough sentence to say. 
I got Jackie for like 

1211
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:40,160
Valentine's Day a couple years 
ago, a horseback ride up through

1212
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,440
the mountains to go see the 
ocean, right? 

1213
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:48,360
And very narrow pathways. 
And on the trail, we are like 1.

1214
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,320
There's only enough, you know, 
Mike mentions 3, Yoshai wide. 

1215
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,880
Notice this trail we were on was
one horse wide. 

1216
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,760
And the horse that Jackie was on
got spooked, reared up and 

1217
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,600
turned around and ran directly 
at us, almost knocking all of us

1218
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,120
off the Cliff. 
And Jackie had this like near 

1219
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,360
death experience. 
And I know it's kind of dark. 

1220
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:11,840
She's fine, everybody. 
But the feeling of, like you 

1221
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,880
said, the freneticism of Yoshi's
been hit and now Yoshi's running

1222
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,040
away and there's, there's, 
there's bottomless pits and 

1223
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,840
there's enemies. 
And also you are vulnerable 

1224
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,000
without Yoshi because Yoshi's 
like a meat shield. 

1225
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,440
As long as you have Yoshi, you 
can get hit once from anything. 

1226
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,680
You're not dying. 
So I get the frustration. 

1227
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,920
But you know, I, in my research,
I learned that Shigeru Miyamoto 

1228
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,560
was an avid horseback rider and 
that inspired a lot of the Yoshi

1229
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:37,720
gameplay. 
I think that he knew what it 

1230
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:43,040
felt like to try and calm down 
your horse in a vulnerable 

1231
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,040
situation. 
I think it nails that perfectly.

1232
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,560
One other Yoshi related thing I 
just want to note just cuz I 

1233
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:52,160
don't know where it was put this
in, I find it both somehow weird

1234
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:56,680
and makes sense that at least 
like in like the credits Peach 

1235
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:03,680
rides Yoshi side saddle. 
Wait, what am I missing here? 

1236
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:05,000
Is she keeping it classy or 
something? 

1237
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:08,840
Yeah, it's just like it's one of
these things where it's like I 

1238
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,320
didn't really think about how 
would Peach ride something, but 

1239
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,880
yeah, side saddle would be 
correct, I guess. 

1240
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,480
That's so fun. 
I never, but yeah, that's 

1241
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:18,720
because she's not. 
She's not going to open her 

1242
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:20,240
legs. 
She's not a working class girl. 

1243
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:22,120
She's royalty. 
That's so funny. 

1244
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,840
And it's a small animation, like
if they had animate made that in

1245
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:30,440
a way that didn't do that, like 
no one would notice, no one 

1246
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,400
would have noticed then that 
would be a thing now. 

1247
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:34,920
But. 
That's hilarious. 

1248
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,560
I love that you brought that up.
Is it a dress? 

1249
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,240
Yep. 
Keeping it classy. 

1250
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,680
I got to respect it. 
So let me know if I'm missing 

1251
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,640
something here because my cons 
are all very nitpicky. 

1252
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,600
But you know, Dempsey said. 
This is a perfect game and I 

1253
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,280
want to challenge it. 
The plot of the game were on 

1254
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,200
Dinosaur Island, right? 
But for some reason most of the 

1255
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,800
levels have food theme names 
like Cheese Bridge, Doughnut 

1256
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:01,560
Plains, Vanilla Dome, Soda Lake,
Hooky Mountain. 

1257
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,120
Not a single scrap of food 
anywhere in the game, not even 

1258
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:05,440
in the background. 
Not the enemies. 

1259
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,160
It's all just an Eric Mario 
theming. 

1260
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,680
Am I missing something? 
What's with the food names? 

1261
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:11,920
I have no idea, I've always 
wondered that. 

1262
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,800
OK. 
I mean, to the dinosaurs, you 

1263
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,520
are food, I guess. 
Well, but still it doesn't 

1264
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,080
really. 
Oh, no, he's no, no. 

1265
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:21,200
You got something? 
I thought you had something 

1266
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,920
there. 
You know I didn't. 

1267
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:24,320
I thought. 
I thought you'd think I did. 

1268
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,120
Mario in general really likes 
the food theme. 

1269
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:32,400
Things I know like in Double 
Dash has a bunch of food theme 

1270
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:36,240
like battle things like battle 
arenas or whatever. 

1271
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:38,880
But yeah, no, I agree. 
I don't I don't know why it's 

1272
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,080
there's not prehistoric names 
associated with the levels and 

1273
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:44,400
it's like Chocolate Island. 
Right. 

1274
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:45,880
Even though it doesn't look 
chocolate. 

1275
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,440
Sure, Yeah, just weird. 
It it's not bad, it's just 

1276
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,000
weird. 
I what I do wonder this is this 

1277
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:53,040
is giving me something to 
Google. 

1278
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,760
I wonder if that's a direct 
translation or if they just 

1279
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,600
wanted to name it in offensive 
English words. 

1280
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:03,120
I don't. 
Know oh OK OK so like no chance 

1281
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:06,360
of misunderstanding anything. 
Yeah, that's, that's 

1282
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,560
interesting. 
Leave a comment if anyone knows 

1283
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:10,880
what the food names are all 
about in Super Mario World. 

1284
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,160
Or if you have good ways to 
misinterpret those. 

1285
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:17,600
There you go. 
Let's not invite that Mike. 

1286
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:21,480
I'm looking over the list again.
I'm like, I don't know about 

1287
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,920
cheese bridge anymore. 
But like also like some of the 

1288
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,960
mechanics felt a little weird. 
Like it's kind of strange to me 

1289
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,040
how many different ways there 
are to fly in this game. 

1290
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,080
Cuz like Yoshi can get wings and
then the Cape can fly and you 

1291
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,960
can get a weird pee balloon. 
But like I was, I think it's 

1292
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,080
most bugged by the power that 
Yoshi gets from the yellow koopa

1293
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:45,000
shells because it lets him do a 
stomp attack that like will 

1294
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,440
create this little shockwave. 
But the shockwave only goes a 

1295
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:48,680
couple of inches in front of 
him. 

1296
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,840
So it's it's easier to just land
on the enemy, which you could 

1297
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:53,320
always do. 
I don't know. 

1298
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:54,960
Am I missing something with that
power up? 

1299
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,720
Do you guys ever use it? 
No, the yellow is the most. 

1300
01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:59,680
Yeah, that's the worst, Yoshi, I
think. 

1301
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:01,920
Yeah. 
Yeah, I did find the blue Yoshi 

1302
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:03,240
with the wings. 
That was kind of fun though. 

1303
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,760
Yeah, I my my favorite is a blue
issue. 

1304
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:10,560
It goes I have a list. 
It goes blue-green, red, yellow,

1305
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:11,760
blue. 
Green, red, yellow. 

1306
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,280
I would have thought red would 
be more than green because 

1307
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:14,720
they're like isn't green just 
generic? 

1308
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,120
Yeah, but I like that it's like 
the classic. 

1309
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,720
Classic. 
Yeah, I, I, I feel that. 

1310
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:24,680
The flying stuff also I did find
and I I think I I think I was 

1311
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:29,840
just brownly told I was wrong, 
but I found the Cape somewhat 

1312
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:31,680
frustrating. 
It can be. 

1313
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:36,160
And I think it's because if it 
was purely like a active ability

1314
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,359
thing of like, OK, I can, you 
know, keep hitting jump and I 

1315
01:08:39,359 --> 01:08:44,479
will fly fine. 
But the inability to fall down 

1316
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:50,200
at like normal speed, it was 
really frustrating, especially 

1317
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:51,760
when things are like this is 
timed. 

1318
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,399
But now I have a Cape and now 
the timing is no longer working.

1319
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,200
Yeah. 
And the annoying part about that

1320
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,560
is, is that there's some element
of you think it should feel 

1321
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:04,000
safer because you're falling 
slower, but it messes up how he 

1322
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,560
moves in general. 
And so you can miss time jumps 

1323
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,800
in a way that feel. 
Yeah, I I think the I I 100% 

1324
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:12,160
agree with. 
You. 

1325
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:13,359
Yeah. 
And granted, I think there may 

1326
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:15,760
be one of these things where 
like it makes it more difficult 

1327
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,000
until you get is sufficiently 
good and then it becomes much 

1328
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,840
better. 
Cuz I've watched I watched an 

1329
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:25,520
all castle race between 3 people
and saw what they did with the 

1330
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:29,680
capes and we're like going 
through levels that you are not 

1331
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:31,520
supposed to be able to go 
through that way. 

1332
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,880
I think like one of the castle 
things they just fly through and

1333
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,479
skip like a auto scroll and it 
was like. 

1334
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:38,800
They broke the game, 
essentially. 

1335
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,800
I wouldn't quite say it broke 
the game because it was, it was,

1336
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,680
it was a difficult move and I'm 
like, OK, yeah, I guess if I 

1337
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,319
could, if I could do that, I 
could see the advantage here 

1338
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:50,439
instead of being stuck to a slow
moving platform. 

1339
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,520
Yeah. 
But I kind of felt I was in this

1340
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,200
gulf where I didn't have A and 
because it disappears quickly 

1341
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,840
and often you don't get it back 
easily. 

1342
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:04,160
Like I didn't really have a good
handle on what it's capabilities

1343
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:06,320
were. 
Sure, it's capable. 

1344
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,400
I, I remember there's a training
section. 

1345
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:14,240
I remember as a kid spending a 
ton of time in trying to teach 

1346
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:18,520
myself how to use the Cape. 
Yeah, I, I completely agree that

1347
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,880
the space with the, where it has
the tall tubes or whatever, and 

1348
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,000
then there's a yeah. 
And then there's a bunch of 

1349
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:28,040
coins up top. 
And I remember as a kid spending

1350
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,480
hours trying to figure out like,
OK, this is how this is how the 

1351
01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:33,440
Cape works. 
So yeah, I, I, I agree with 

1352
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:34,600
that. 
I also don't get why it doesn't 

1353
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,280
work on Mechacupus. 
So a Cape doesn't do anything to

1354
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:38,280
them. 
No. 

1355
01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:42,400
Why does that bother you? 
They're they're mechanic guys. 

1356
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,880
They can't use a magical object.
It bothers me because or because

1357
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:51,200
it's like I one of the things in
beating the boss I stumbled into

1358
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:55,160
eventually is since the way 
Bowser's Castle is, is like, you

1359
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,600
have the first, you select one 
of four rooms and then you 

1360
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,320
select one, and then you have 
another set of four rooms to 

1361
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:00,880
select. 
Yeah. 

1362
01:11:01,480 --> 01:11:04,840
And so the one that I was doing 
for the first one, so I think I 

1363
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,040
tried them all and the one where
I'm like, OK, this is the one 

1364
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,600
that I had the best shot of 
getting through is basically a 

1365
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,520
maze with Mecca Koopas in it 
that you have to work through. 

1366
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,000
And you can get a feather and 
one up in that level. 

1367
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,920
Yeah, and I stumbled on both of 
those and honestly would have 

1368
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,680
given up if I hadn't ran into 
that feather accident by 

1369
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:24,360
overshooting something. 
And it was like, oh. 

1370
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:26,920
Feather. 
It's huge. 

1371
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:29,800
Yeah, it's like, OK, this 
change, this changes everything.

1372
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,360
And then immediately ran up, you
know, went up, jumped and then 

1373
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:36,040
drifted down and then get in the
spot where, like, by the time I 

1374
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,200
drifted down, the Mecca Koopa 
down there had drift, moved, 

1375
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:40,680
gone over to where I need to 
exit. 

1376
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:43,360
And then I had to deal with 
this, lead it back away because 

1377
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,000
I can't get rid of this stupid I
I don't like Mecca koopas. 

1378
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,000
I misunderstood what you meant 
though, because I thought you 

1379
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,200
meant how come the Mecca Koopa 
can't put on the Cape and fly 

1380
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:51,440
around like the other Koopas 
can. 

1381
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:53,800
You meant how come the spin 
attack does not hurt them? 

1382
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,320
Yes. 
Gotcha. 

1383
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:59,120
Yeah, I did not consider that as
an interpretation. 

1384
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:04,360
Yeah, no, that's what I meant. 
And so I kept reaching Bowser 

1385
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,360
with that. 
It's like, this is almost like I

1386
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:11,160
this handles rougher for me. 
And I'm like, I bet if I knew 

1387
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:15,640
how I could breeze through this 
through the final fight because 

1388
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,240
I have the ability to fly, but I
don't know how to use it well 

1389
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,600
enough for that. 
I believe they set the Bowser 

1390
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,760
arena to be small enough that 
you can't take off. 

1391
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:24,760
I don't think you can get a 
proper running start. 

1392
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:27,720
Correct me if I'm wrong anybody,
but I'm pretty sure you can't. 

1393
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,280
In any case, it was like if I 
could just hit the Mecca coupas 

1394
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:33,880
with it, this would be great. 
Though if I'm actually. 

1395
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:38,040
That does remind me a thing that
frustrates me is the ability to 

1396
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,240
pick things up. 
At least with that is the same 

1397
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:42,920
as running. 
Yeah. 

1398
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:47,760
And OK, especially with those, 
the number of times where it's 

1399
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:51,200
like I'd go to pick it up and 
because their programming would 

1400
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:54,120
keep trying to come at you if 
you had one knocked out, the 

1401
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:55,600
other mecha coupa's right next 
to it. 

1402
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,600
And the number of times I'd pick
one up and immediately just hit 

1403
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:00,720
the other one and lose both of 
them, like, God Dang it, I have 

1404
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:02,000
to go through. 
I have to go through another 

1405
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,040
cycle and get more of those. 
Dempsey, can I ask you a 

1406
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:06,800
question about the controls? 
Sure. 

1407
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:10,040
Because one of my biggest joy 
cons is on the Super Nintendo 

1408
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,520
version. 
I don't like the button layout 

1409
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:13,960
and I don't know if I'm missing 
something. 

1410
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:15,760
Yeah, it's trash. 
OK. 

1411
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:17,080
Yeah. 
Right. 

1412
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:20,560
What's what's bad about it? 
I I think it's it feels like you

1413
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,320
need another thumb. 
Like it would be nice to have a 

1414
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:25,480
thumb going off of yourself. 
Oh my God, I'm so glad. 

1415
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:26,800
I'm like, what am I missing 
here? 

1416
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,000
Because the reason it's it's 
it's so annoying is that you 

1417
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,440
hold down the B button to run. 
And so I don't know how you play

1418
01:13:32,440 --> 01:13:34,440
it, but I'm always holding that 
button down. 

1419
01:13:35,440 --> 01:13:39,120
And then you have the jump 
button above it so you can roll 

1420
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:42,120
your thumb, but then you also 
have the spin jump, which does 

1421
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,080
not go as high, but has a lot of
uses in this game. 

1422
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:50,160
And that's the Y button. 
So there's no way to, like, kill

1423
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:51,680
your thumb in place? 
Yeah, I. 

1424
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,280
Think so much spit and jump was 
in the bumper? 

1425
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,720
So Mike, this is This is why 
let's we never wrapped up our 

1426
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:00,520
Nintendos or that. 
But I think Mike and I are both 

1427
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,600
recommending the Gameboy advance
version because on Gameboy 

1428
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,680
advance run is BA is jump and 
spin is the bumper. 

1429
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,240
And so finally your hands can 
stay put and you're not sliding 

1430
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:10,360
your thumb around the 
controller. 

1431
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:12,600
I like that way better. 
Mike, you did too, right? 

1432
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:13,880
Yeah. 
And I think actually if I had 

1433
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:15,680
started with that, I think I 
would have used the spin jump 

1434
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:17,360
more. 
I didn't use it much and I think

1435
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:19,800
it's probably because I started 
with the S and ES and right. 

1436
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:22,120
That's, I didn't know that. 
That's interesting. 

1437
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,240
That's so interesting. 
I wish you could remap. 

1438
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:26,640
Anyways, go on. 
You assume we actually by the 

1439
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,440
time you're listening to this, 
you should be able to. 

1440
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,960
They're adding it to Nintendo 
classics, or at least for the 

1441
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,760
Nintendo, I don't know. 
It's just for the N64, I don't 

1442
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:36,600
know, no. 
Really. 

1443
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:41,160
They do, they thought it was. 
But I I like, I hope I prove me 

1444
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:46,520
wrong, Nintendo, prove me wrong.
Making run Y would be nice and 

1445
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:49,680
then jump and then so you can 
rock your thumb and but yeah, 

1446
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,840
having to hold down B and then 
yeah, it seems like it's upside 

1447
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,840
down. 
One more thing to rant about 

1448
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,240
Mike, can I finish? 
This is related to this. 

1449
01:14:58,440 --> 01:15:01,160
Then you finish. 
Yeah, Isn't actually that 

1450
01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:04,320
balance between jumping and 
running and stuff actually was a

1451
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,720
gameplay thing that sort of 
frustrated me of the extent of, 

1452
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:13,040
OK, I have to be at running and 
jumping off this platform, but 

1453
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:15,240
then I have to go back to 
regular speed to not run off the

1454
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:19,440
next platform kind of stuff. 
I was a bit frustrated with the 

1455
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,680
you know, or I can't jump high 
enough unless I'm running kind 

1456
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:24,920
of stuff. 
Yeah. 

1457
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:26,560
And then it's pretty slippery 
too. 

1458
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,280
So sometimes if you keep running
and then that can really make 

1459
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:32,280
jumps more difficult than they 
need to be. 

1460
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,560
Yeah. 
Definitely not a I'm not a 

1461
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,560
general like fan of platforming 
and that made it more 

1462
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,280
frustrating. 
And Chocolate Island 2 where all

1463
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:46,040
the platforms are on angles. 
Somehow it became the worst of 

1464
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:48,800
all possible. 
Legitimately, that may be my 

1465
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:52,040
least favorite platforming level
of any game I have ever played 

1466
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,600
in my life. 
Yeah, it tormented you for 

1467
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:56,040
hours. 
Yeah. 

1468
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,200
Well, so something that's 
tormented me since I was a kid 

1469
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,560
is that, and this is by the way,
this is not a serious joy combo.

1470
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,400
This is my last nitpick, and 
it's haunted me since I was a 

1471
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:05,200
kid. 
There's these really cool levels

1472
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:08,160
where you can climb the fence in
the background, like Vega from 

1473
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,960
Street Fighter Two, and if 
there's a Koopa on the other 

1474
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:13,280
side of the fence, you can press
the B button and you'll punch 

1475
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,120
the fence and kill them. 
If you're strong enough to do 

1476
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,080
that, why can't you just punch 
one that's right in front of 

1477
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:19,320
you? 
Do you know what I mean? 

1478
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,960
Like if Mario and Luigi can 
punch Koopas to death, just sock

1479
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:23,240
it in the face, it's right 
there. 

1480
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:25,120
How come I have to jump? 
I don't know. 

1481
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:29,160
The underside you're hitting. 
Yeah, I thought about that but 

1482
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:32,400
still bugs me. 
Cuz I mean realistically like 

1483
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:37,200
this is weaker than Mario used 
to be cuz Mario used to hit him 

1484
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:39,520
through brick. 
That's true. 

1485
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:44,440
Yeah, that's a good point. 
Well, any other joy cons for 

1486
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:47,320
Super Mario World? 
No, I think that's a blasphemous

1487
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:48,440
question actually. 
But. 

1488
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:51,560
Well, OK, but Dempsey, I feel 
like you listed 3 or 4 things. 

1489
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:53,320
You're like, Oh yeah, the 
controls are trashed, but the 

1490
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:55,880
game's packed. 
They're trashed in a good way. 

1491
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. 
It's a great game. 

1492
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:02,480
OK, what about this? 
OK, wait, Dempsey, what about 

1493
01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:03,840
this? 
What about what's your reward 

1494
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:06,120
for 100% in this game? 
Because as near as I can tell, 

1495
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,080
the only thing that changes is 
that Bowser does not appear in 

1496
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,600
silhouette form at the end. 
Is there any special ending I 

1497
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,360
didn't know about? 
I don't know I I would have to. 

1498
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:17,520
I can't remember. 
I'm a bad person to ask. 

1499
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:18,840
I'm sorry. 
That's all good. 

1500
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:21,800
The real achievement is just 
knowing that you did it. 

1501
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,840
It's true, yeah. 
Bragging rights 100% I. 

1502
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:27,320
Didn't say bragging rights. 
I said knowing that you did it. 

1503
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:30,320
I think there's a bit. 
There's a very different 

1504
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,720
distinction there between self 
fulfillment versus validation 

1505
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,480
from others. 
Yeah, I have trouble separating 

1506
01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:39,280
those things sometimes. 
Well, we already covered the 

1507
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:41,960
Nintendisc or dat, and I think 
Mike and I both agree. 

1508
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,760
Game Boy Advance, if you have 
access to it, that's the version

1509
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:46,440
to play. 
I I think it's just a lump. 

1510
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:48,600
Although we haven't talked about
the one other thing that the 

1511
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,440
Game Boy Advance version does. 
The multiplayer. 

1512
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,240
No, I'm not even multiplayer the
talking. 

1513
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,880
Yes, they added voice lines. 
That's right. 

1514
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:58,680
That's crazy. 
What? 

1515
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:01,280
Yeah, I've never. 
So I've never played the Game 

1516
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:02,240
Boy Advance. 
Or is it? 

1517
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:03,440
Yeah, the Game Boy Advance 
version. 

1518
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:05,880
So this is all new to me. 
Yeah, so it's stuff like you get

1519
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,040
a mushroom and it is like just 
what I needed or something. 

1520
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:10,600
Which honestly is very true. 
But I just keep having people 

1521
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,200
being like, I played this as a 
kid, I do not remember talking. 

1522
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:14,840
No, no, no. 
I'm playing the Game Boy Advance

1523
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:15,840
version. 
They added that. 

1524
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:19,200
I don't know why they added 
that, but they did add it. 

1525
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:22,120
And then it, it, you know, we 
were right before recording, we 

1526
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:25,280
played the four player, I guess,
deathmatch mode of the original 

1527
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,560
Mario game. 
It's included on every Super 

1528
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:30,480
Mario Advance game. 
But it was fun. 

1529
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,320
You know, it was just kind of 
competitive goofy, you know, 

1530
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:35,560
chopping it up. 
And, you know, I don't I don't 

1531
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:37,760
think I go out of my way to play
it, but it was a fun little 

1532
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:41,800
bonus for this episode. 
I thought the deathmatch version

1533
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:43,560
of. 
If you want to know our thoughts

1534
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,480
on that game, go back to Season 
1 because we covered the 

1535
01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:50,600
original Mario Arcade True 
Believers back in Season 1. 

1536
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,760
OK, well so guys, if we have 
nothing else to say, I think 

1537
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:57,920
it's time to declare this game 
as a Nintendu or a Nintend. 

1538
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,520
Don't Dempsey. 
You'd be a weird Nintend. 

1539
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,000
Don't at this point. 
Yeah, it's one of the best video

1540
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,360
games ever made. 
Don't. 

1541
01:19:04,440 --> 01:19:07,280
Play it. 
So you know, we we do have 

1542
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:09,520
tiers. 
We have Nintendo Super. 

1543
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,480
Nintendo of a level of 
gatekeeping that is this game is

1544
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:14,480
so good you don't deserve to 
play it. 

1545
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:15,280
That's. 
Right. 

1546
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:19,760
Hey, it works for the rest of 
the Internet, but so would you. 

1547
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:22,400
Would you bump this to the 
highest tier of Super Nintendo? 

1548
01:19:22,440 --> 01:19:26,080
Sorry Nintendo 64 Dempsey, Is it
a must play? 

1549
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:30,560
I think it is yeah, I think, I 
think anybody who likes, 

1550
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:35,000
especially if you like games 
like Celeste specifically like a

1551
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:36,400
few. 
I know Celeste is very popular. 

1552
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:41,160
We have opening games has an 
episode about Celeste with one 

1553
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:45,560
of my favorite guests. 
So yeah, I, I if you like games 

1554
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,280
like Celeste or any platformers,
this is a this is an absolutely 

1555
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:51,080
must. 
You can actually, I feel like 

1556
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:55,160
you can kind of see maybe where 
a lot of these ideas are kind of

1557
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:58,000
celebrated as well. 
A. 100 percent, 100% Mike. 

1558
01:19:58,000 --> 01:19:59,760
Nintendo. 
Nintendo, I mean. 

1559
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:05,560
I can definitely say where I was
going to be last night and, and,

1560
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,440
and I'm gonna say where I was 
gonna be last night after 

1561
01:20:08,440 --> 01:20:11,960
beating this. 
Nintendo was considered. 

1562
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,160
And I think what raised, and I 
think it's the frustration of 

1563
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,880
hitting a level and it's being 
like, well, this is very 

1564
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:22,920
frustrating at this point. 
And kind of what shifted that 

1565
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:26,720
around is #1 discovering that 
apparently there's a way to do 

1566
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:31,360
that level better. 
And the Star Rd. basically also 

1567
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:34,880
means like, even if I had been 
in a situation about, I cannot 

1568
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:39,280
get past this one level, but I 
can find out about the star Road

1569
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:45,000
and bypass it. 
That is a lot better than a game

1570
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:48,960
where it's like, if you can't 
beat one level, you will not see

1571
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,600
anything after that. 
Like I yeah, having routes 

1572
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:57,360
around it definitely improved 
things and like cuz that was 

1573
01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:00,720
something that felt almost like 
a fatal flaw having gotten 

1574
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:02,960
around that. 
And then also mentioning here 

1575
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:05,600
cuz I have mentioned earlier, 
the music in the castles is 

1576
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:10,680
really good. 
Yeah, do do do do do. 

1577
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:14,680
It's, it's the like, there's 
like a couple like lower notes 

1578
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:16,400
that come in that just they're 
really cool. 

1579
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:21,920
Yeah, very, very Hammer Horror. 
Yeah, but yeah. 

1580
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:27,600
So I think ultimately I do end 
up as a Nintendo on this, yeah. 

1581
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:32,360
And I do give credit to the fact
that I think someone who enjoys 

1582
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,960
platforming a bit more would 
have a bit more to, you know, 

1583
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:40,440
the multiple pathways is neat to
explore as a general thing. 

1584
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,920
And I can see someone who's 
having more fun with platforming

1585
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:47,720
than I do enjoying like fully 
completing that. 

1586
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:51,880
Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. 
I think this is easily the best 

1587
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:55,800
2D Mario game I've ever played. 
I think that, you know, perfect 

1588
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:59,480
difficulty balance because like 
Mike said, even if you hit a 

1589
01:21:59,480 --> 01:22:01,840
roadblock, there's ways around 
it. 

1590
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:03,840
There's a whole world to 
explore. 

1591
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,000
You know, if you'll forgive the 
cringe here, though. 

1592
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:10,760
And I think when you add in the 
Game Boy Advance, keeping your 

1593
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:13,680
progress even to the point of 
mid level checkpoints, suddenly 

1594
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:17,160
it felt like there was no level 
that I wanted to give up on. 

1595
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:19,680
I just kept grinding and 
grinding and getting through 

1596
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,920
those levels felt so good. 
You know, by not cheating. 

1597
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,200
The cable club league compared 
this game to Sonic three. 

1598
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,760
They used to do this like kind 
of Coliseum episode where they 

1599
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:33,560
decide which game is better and 
I guess spoilers for that 

1600
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,040
episode, but they said Super 
Mario World was better than 

1601
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:38,600
Sonic 3. 
And I was like blasphemers Sonic

1602
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:42,120
is the end all. 
But like Sonic, Sonic is still 

1603
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:45,440
my favorite franchise when it 
comes to platformers, but it 

1604
01:22:45,440 --> 01:22:48,560
doesn't have the depth and the 
level of secrets and the 

1605
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:50,520
expansiveness that this game 
has. 

1606
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:54,120
Those levels are great, but 
there's just so much to this 

1607
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:56,720
game that it's really hard not 
to recommend. 

1608
01:22:57,000 --> 01:23:01,200
So I think if you play the SNAS 
version, it's a Nintendo, but on

1609
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:04,760
the Game Boy Advance, it goes up
to a Super Nintendo for me, and 

1610
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:07,760
it's Super Nintendo. 
Excuse me, it's just wonderful. 

1611
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,640
So if you have the expansion 
pack, I think that's the way to 

1612
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:15,280
play it, but I think you should.
I want to defend the SNES 

1613
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:16,440
version. 
Go ahead. 

1614
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:20,440
I'm gonna. 
So I think, I think I agree 

1615
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:22,000
broadly with a lot of what 
you're saying. 

1616
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,880
I do think that perhaps if you 
are playing it, maybe and maybe 

1617
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:31,000
this is not indicative of your 
experience, but I think if you 

1618
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,680
are playing it without a 
timeline or without finishing it

1619
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:39,120
for an episode and can spend, 
can have it in the background or

1620
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:41,360
can swap between games, you 
know, things like that. 

1621
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:47,240
I do think that the setting back
and to either having to farm or 

1622
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:48,760
having to redo the levels or 
not. 

1623
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:54,040
I, I think there is a level of 
like almost like from soft 

1624
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:58,240
style, like, yeah, this is like 
this is kind of baked into my 

1625
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:01,480
hands now that I, I think is 
really satisfying. 

1626
01:24:01,480 --> 01:24:05,000
So I, I, I, I think you're, I 
think if you really really, 

1627
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:09,600
really, really, really, really 
like platformers, you know, it's

1628
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:12,960
the S and ES version. 
I think there's some, I think, I

1629
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:17,000
think there's some, there's some
value there. 

1630
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:19,760
I wouldn't, I wouldn't be. 
I wouldn't say it's not for 

1631
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:21,520
anyone. 
Yeah, I still said it was a 

1632
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:25,320
Nintendo. 
Well, yeah, yeah, OK, fair 

1633
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,520
enough. 
I think it also just reflects a 

1634
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:31,440
little bit of a change in 
gaming, that there was a time 

1635
01:24:31,440 --> 01:24:34,040
where you were buying a game and
it needed to last you, and I 

1636
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,440
think the farming kind of thing 
works in that. 

1637
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:40,880
Sure, I completely agree. 
Whereas an era where this would 

1638
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:44,160
have been, you know, 60 ish 
bucks or whatever that would 

1639
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:47,680
have been at the time, like 
games always been pricey ish. 

1640
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,000
Sure. 
Whereas now it's like I bought 

1641
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:54,160
Skyrim for 5 bucks. 
So like if I'm just farming 

1642
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:58,080
stuff, like I can switch games 
and have a different game for 

1643
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:02,320
cheap quickly. 
And like in this context, if you

1644
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,840
have Nintendo Switch Online and 
you've got the Nintendo 

1645
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:08,480
classics, you can just switch to
many other games. 

1646
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:11,840
So I think that's where 
something that at a time where 

1647
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:15,040
you had to get a lot of gameplay
out of it and it allowed a way 

1648
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,640
to do it, I think it doesn't. 
I mean, it didn't hold up as a 

1649
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:22,280
necessary thing enough that by 
the by the time they switched to

1650
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:26,440
a handheld with Game Boy 
Advance, they kind of allowed 

1651
01:25:26,440 --> 01:25:28,720
for some stuff where you're 
still having to go through 

1652
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,000
through chunks of levels and 
everything. 

1653
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:35,080
But I, yeah, I, I, I actually, I
think that's really interesting 

1654
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:38,080
because I think when I formed 
memories with this, I had this 

1655
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:40,920
and then a Star Fox adventure. 
No, not Star Fox adventure. 

1656
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:43,000
Star Fox. 
I think you were flying. 

1657
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,720
Was there an S in the S game 
where you're flying a Star Fox? 

1658
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:47,480
Yeah, the original 1. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1659
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:49,080
So I had this in the Star Fox 
game. 

1660
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:51,760
Like, those were only two games 
I had from an SNES for like 

1661
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:56,240
years of my childhood. 
And so I yeah, I maybe that 

1662
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:59,080
stuff seemed more palatable 
because I did not have options. 

1663
01:25:59,440 --> 01:26:01,400
Yeah, there's a bit that I think
it's interesting to. 

1664
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,640
For me, it's interesting. 
Other people talk about like 

1665
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:08,520
gaming as a kid where they had 
large gaming, like large 

1666
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:13,120
collections of games and for 
anything I only ever had a few 

1667
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:15,080
games really. 
Because. 

1668
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:18,000
That was, you know, there and 
was the budget and what my 

1669
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,000
parents were willing to have 
around. 

1670
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:23,720
So it's like Game Boy. 
I think I have either two or 

1671
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:27,720
three games and that was it. 
And that Game Boy was mostly 

1672
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:30,440
used for Pokémon because that's 
why I had a Game Boy. 

1673
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:33,600
And the same thing kind of goes 
over to the other consoles that 

1674
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:35,840
I had is I didn't have many 
games. 

1675
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:38,280
And so it was like you put you 
what you had you were going to 

1676
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:40,200
play a lot of. 
And so I definitely get that 

1677
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,480
when it comes to this of. 
Yeah, I think, I know. 

1678
01:26:43,480 --> 01:26:44,920
I think you're honest. 
I think that makes a lot of 

1679
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:46,960
sense. 
Well, you know, normally I say 

1680
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:48,720
agree to disagree, but we don't 
need to. 

1681
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:51,080
So chime in on the Discord guys,
let's actually put this one up 

1682
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:53,680
there, Mike, because I totally 
respect Dempsey's opinion, 

1683
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:55,400
especially since he's a fan of 
the original. 

1684
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,560
But you and I are both on Team 
Gameboy Advance, so chime in on 

1685
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:00,120
the Discord. 
We'll put up a little survey. 

1686
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,160
You know, give them both a try 
and let us know what you think, 

1687
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:04,880
everybody. 
I want to recommend something. 

1688
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:10,160
Yeah, do it. 
So if you are looking for a 90s 

1689
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:14,880
anime that I think both captures
the spirit of Super Mario that 

1690
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:17,440
you can watch for free on Super 
Mario World, that you can watch 

1691
01:27:17,440 --> 01:27:20,160
for free on YouTube, I would 
like to see if you like the 

1692
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:23,880
aesthetics of Super Mario World.
I really want to suggest to you 

1693
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:29,840
the 1992 made for television 
anime The Wonderful Galaxy of 

1694
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:35,400
Oz. 
And for whatever reason, I just 

1695
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:38,840
connect these two things so 
deeply together in my head. 

1696
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:44,160
I think The Wonderful Galaxy of 
Oz has such strong Super Mario 

1697
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:48,040
World energy. 
Well, yeah, I'm looking at 

1698
01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:49,560
pictures of it. 
You're not wrong. 

1699
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:52,960
Also an interesting pitch 
because didn't they also make a 

1700
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,240
cartoon that was Super Mario 
World? 

1701
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:57,600
Yeah, but that's bad. 
This is bad. 

1702
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:01,440
This is a better Super Mario 
World adaptation. 

1703
01:28:01,440 --> 01:28:04,280
I'm not sure if it is the one 
that where it's like an animated

1704
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,800
Yoshi that talks and is like you
should have never what green 

1705
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:12,720
lighted this voice to be Yoshi. 
Well, yeah, Captain and and Mega

1706
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:16,280
Man though, come on. 
Honestly the Yoshi is worse. 

1707
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,040
Guys, I think we're gonna call 
that game over for today. 

1708
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:24,400
The final score for Super Mario 
World is a resounding Nintendo 

1709
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,040
Dempsey. 
It's Thank you so much for 

1710
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:29,480
flapping your gums and flapping 
your Cape with us today. 

1711
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:31,840
Before you get on out of here, 
why don't you tell our listeners

1712
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:33,200
where they can find your stuff 
again? 

1713
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:37,600
Yeah, so you can whatever you 
get podcasts over thinking games

1714
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:42,800
podcast and then if you want to 
follow us on TikTok and comments

1715
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:45,800
would that makes me feel good. 
That'd be awesome. 

1716
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:49,560
Are you still doing the game 
music TikTok videos? 

1717
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:51,200
Slow. 
Yeah. 

1718
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:57,000
Slowly, yeah, yeah, where I so I
have a obnoxiously well, it's a 

1719
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:01,160
I'm proud of it. 
I I have a collection of indie 

1720
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:04,760
video game vinyls and so I'll 
play music from it and then show

1721
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:07,400
the artwork and things like that
that go with the vinyls and then

1722
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:10,640
talk about how I feel about that
video game soundtrack. 

1723
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:16,120
So like Celeste Batter Wyles, 
Florence Griss alone or a Night 

1724
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:19,320
in the Woods kind of games like 
that, but have good vinyl 

1725
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:21,520
soundtracks on. 
Yeah, that's that's a series on 

1726
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:23,920
TikTok that we do. 
I love vinyls and I love video 

1727
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:25,000
games. 
That's a slam dunk. 

1728
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:29,000
I can't wait. 
Well, everybody join us next 

1729
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:31,680
time when Mike and I will be 
demolishing a rare, 

1730
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:35,960
one-of-a-kind classic Blast Core
for the Nintendo 64. 

1731
01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:40,160
Also, don't forget to visit 
www.theoldswitcharu.com. 

1732
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:42,600
There you can find links to our 
Spotify, our YouTube, Instagram,

1733
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,840
and all the social medias you 
can shake a joystick at. 

1734
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:47,320
You can even leave an old timey 
voicemail, meaning we'd 

1735
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:50,120
literally love to hear from you.
Or even better, join the fun on 

1736
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:53,480
our Discord server where you can
play games, talk games, and even

1737
01:29:53,480 --> 01:29:56,280
make a friend or two. 
Big thanks to Crystal Fields for

1738
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:58,880
our incredible intro song. 
And thank you, dear Listener for

1739
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:01,680
liking, commenting, subscribing,
reviewing, and playing along 

1740
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:05,080
with us every step of the way. 
This has been the old Switcheroo

1741
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:07,560
where we've been talking gaming 
retro with Mike and Jamo. 

1742
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,480
I have been Mike. 
And I've been jamo game on 

1743
01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:26,640
everyone. 
You know, I think really had a 

1744
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:32,680
good day whoever came up with 
the backpack Bowser design, you 

1745
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:34,080
know, like the. 
Oh yeah. 

1746
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:36,400
Like the backpacks that you can 
make? 

1747
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:39,360
It look like a spiny shell. 
Yeah, I think like whoever 

1748
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:42,560
designed that merch was like, 
this is a good piece of Mario 

1749
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:44,200
merch. 
There's your post credits team. 

1750
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:47,120
Like that's amazing. 
I think, I think about that 

1751
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:49,840
every time I see Bowser. 
And you know something, you 

1752
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,040
know, it wasn't someone who 
worked at Nintendo. 

1753
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:53,560
And everyone in Nintendo was 
pissed. 

1754
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:54,960
Like, why didn't we think of 
that? 

1755
01:30:56,520 --> 01:31:02,520
We were selling Mario backpacks.
Yeah, I lost. 

1756
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,560
I'm crying Luigi. 
It makes me so sad when Luigi 

1757
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:08,440
cries. 
I feel like when Mario cries, 

1758
01:31:08,440 --> 01:31:11,480
I'm like he can pick himself up.
When Luigi cries I'm like, would

1759
01:31:11,480 --> 01:31:14,880
you Jack on him? 
That's the difference I feel 

1760
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:18,280
between Mario and Luigi. 
While Luigi cries is just sexy, 

1761
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:20,040
yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1762
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,880
I feel like when when while 
Luigi cries, I feel like there's

1763
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:26,840
elements of his life I don't 
understand completely. 

1764
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:31,320
And so I, I don't know what the 
full context is. 

1765
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:37,880
So I'm not, I'm not actually 
Luigi, I am Mario, but green 

1766
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:39,360
you're. 
You're but you're wearing the 

1767
01:31:39,480 --> 01:31:41,360
even the purple pants like I 
feel like. 

1768
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:45,360
Yeah, but it says M on my hat, 
unless I'm just like borrowing a

1769
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:48,120
Mario hat. 
You think you would wear a a hat

1770
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:50,040
that had AJ on it? 
It's like that. 

1771
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:51,760
Absolutely would. 
Yeah, he would. 

1772
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:54,760
OK. 
You want to get me a hat with AJ

1773
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:57,800
on it, that is. 
I don't know if that was like 

1774
01:31:57,800 --> 01:31:59,880
too self aggrandizing. 
Or not. 

1775
01:31:59,880 --> 01:32:02,280
I'm all about self aggrandize. 
OK, that's good. 

1776
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:06,080
I listen to our episodes an 
embarrassing number of times. 

1777
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:12,760
It's actually been interesting 
because I don't think that much 

1778
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:16,480
about the NSS service other than
playing this game specifically. 

1779
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:21,800
So it's it's been interesting to
hear what is on here. 

1780
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,640
Like I've known nostalgia 
attached to any of this. 

1781
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,480
It's really frustrating because 
I, I, I do genuinely believe a 

1782
01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:31,080
part of the reason we're 
struggling to get this thing to 

1783
01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:33,600
have a big audience is because 
nobody knows about this freaking

1784
01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:38,840
service like Nintendo advertises
it so badly.